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Pupil putting all the responsibility on me to gain good grades

115 replies

Whendothingsstarttoimprove · 18/06/2024 11:13

Can anyone offer me any perspective/help with this?

I do part time tutoring and help a 12 year old girl with her maths. She very poor and really struggles. She’s told me that her teacher at school is a good teacher, but even though she asks for help a lot, he tends to ignore her hand up and go to others. She always asks to stay after the lesson for help, but told me she still doesn’t understand it.
When we go through things slowly together, she does end up understanding, but it feels like I’m teaching every concept from scratch.
She has tests at the end of each term and there are often up to twelve topics to cover within a few weeks -5-6 hours.
She did manage to get a C last time, but in the most recent test, she got an E. Comments she’s made feel like she’s expecting to get an A and it’s all my responsibility to get her to that, is this fair? When she showed me the E, she seemed angry at me
I can see without my help, she basically wouldn’t understand anything and these few lessons do make a big difference, however it’s very hard to teach her completely from scratch.
Should all the responsibility be on me?
With the other subjects we focus on, she now gets A’s & B’s in her tests.

OP posts:
Whendothingsstarttoimprove · 18/06/2024 18:47

I have suspected ASD too and mentioned to her mum when she was off school, her anxiety was sky high, she’s much better now, but I think may be on anti anxiety tablets or something has been given as it was a big change. She does have tics though and still has issues with food, not as bad as before when she couldn’t eat and constantly had nausea and was scared of being sick. She’s done brilliantly and come a long way

OP posts:
Whendothingsstarttoimprove · 18/06/2024 18:45

She started at an E in September, then the next test was a D and then a C. I was over the moon about the C as this was a huge improvement for her, she wasn’t that happy. Then this end of year test, so covering everything from the year was back down to an E, it was disappointing

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 18/06/2024 18:41

Many people are coming to some quite extreme conclusions on very little info.

She might have asn, but she might just be spoiled and rude. Either are possible.

Equally, she might have slow processing and almost certainly has poor working memory (I think that is a strand that runs across most who struggle in Maths). If she got a C in a test, dyscalculia is unlikely, although if she is in an aggressive pushy school, the tests might just be too hard (again, without seeing the material, it is impossible to know).

But, to the point, most teachers know that the best they can do is lift a pupil a couple of grades. So, with great teaching, you might raise an E to a C or a D to a B, although a C to an A is much harder.

Maths is like a language or an instrument; it needs regular practice. For those without a natural ‘bent’ for it, that is doubly important. For every hour of tuition, she should be practising graded examples for another hour; there are tons of online resources available.

So, as I said above, if you want to carry on tutoring her, she and her parents need to agree to this if they want her to make a meaningful improvement.

Whendothingsstarttoimprove · 18/06/2024 18:39

Thanks everyone, think i‘m going to knock it on the head after today.
I texted to double check for the summer holidays if days would remain the same etc as my other families informed me ages ago of plans, she said no tutoring over summer. Where we are that works out at 12 weeks no pay, three months of the year. I’d prefer to go with someone more reliable

OP posts:
BlueBiscuits77 · 18/06/2024 18:22

OP have you thought of assigning her work on an online tool to practice. Something like Seneca?

Nn9011 · 18/06/2024 18:14

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 18/06/2024 17:28

Or maybe maths just isn’t her subject like it wasn’t mine?! some children are more skilled and adept at English lit and language like I was.

Mine also wasn’t helped by the fact my form teacher at age 9 hated me as I couldn’t catch a ball (I wore glasses due to a corrected squint) and maths was her favourite subject so she’d shout and bully me and put me off maths for life. I don’t think I’m ND either.

If it was just she struggled with maths I'd agree but there's other things at play too. Reading even that she complained about the cleaner moving her stuff, that's likely less her being a brat but not liking her stuff in different places or moved out of a specific order. The school avoidance, feeling singled out by the teacher and being sensitive. Thinking back actually another thing is the fact she says she should have been told what would come up. It's very typical for autistic people to be literal. If you say study xyz as that will come up on the test but don't think to mention ABC will be on it because that's in your mind obvious, to an autistic person who thinks literally they may be thrown by ABC being there because they were only expecting xyz, inf act they may be upset as she was because in her mind if her tutor knew ABC could be on the test they should have told her. There can't really be assumptions or implications.
Now as an adult in my 30s, I still get caught out by this. I am late diagnosed so I literally had to teach myself this understanding from my interactions with people but I still get caught out.

One of the difficult things with how autism presents in girls is that it's often in social ways and is seen as bratty or a moral failing. Girls learn to mask much better and much earlier than boys too so it can be often missed but I see so many signs in this, it's definitely not just that she struggles with maths.

Riversideandrelax · 18/06/2024 17:42

AngelsWithSilverWings · 18/06/2024 12:15

This pupil sounds like my DD. She appears to understand and retain stuff in the hour she is working with someone and then by the time a test comes - even the next day she can't recall anything.

We had her assessed , once in primary and again in senior school and during both assessments she has been found to have slow processing. Primary school did nothing to help her but her senior school have helped her massively with one to one tuition , special revision apps and by arranging extra time for her GCSEs

We found a tutor who specialised in helping children with SEN and she uses lots of visual ways to teach.

My DD will likely only scrape a few level fours in her GCSEs if she's lucky but without this tutor who has helped her since she was in Y4 she wouldn't even have been able to sit her Y6 SATs let alone GCSEs.

Sounds like your DD has overcome so much and done so well. It's good to hear her school have been supportive. You must be very proud of her.

RoseDog · 18/06/2024 17:35

Has she been tested for dyscalcula? It sounds like she's not processing the information, especially if she's achieving in other subjects.

Bumblebeeinatree · 18/06/2024 17:33

How does she get to complain about you? Is that her parents talking? You can't make a child who finds maths a challenge an A student. She may never be great at maths hopefully she will do well enough with tutoring that it doesn't affect her prospects, but if she wants a job that needs great maths it's probably not going to happen, it gets much more difficult.

Although if it's actually arithmetic she finds difficult she may be OK with more complex concepts.

MushMonster · 18/06/2024 17:32

Whendothingsstarttoimprove · 18/06/2024 11:17

@TeenDivided They’re not in a set at school, it sounds like to me, the teacher is avoiding her a little as she doesn’t understand anything, should all the pressure therefore be on me?

Well, that bit yes. You are her tutor, so you need to explain everything, till she understands it. As she is eventually getting it, could she just have a very specific way you need o teach her? Like visually? Practical examples? Have you found out a pattern on at which point she gets you?
Now, her marks are up to her. How much she practices. Not inly up to you.
She sounds like she needs more maths time.

User79853257976 · 18/06/2024 17:30

Of course it’s not your fault. Teachers aren’t magicians or miracle workers.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 18/06/2024 17:28

Nn9011 · 18/06/2024 17:20

I suspect she is neurodivergent, likely autism based on what you've explained so far - difficulty or slowness picking up certain processes unless explained in particular ways, perfectionist , anxiety, highly sensitive and an injustice about the teacher's attitude towards her even if it isn't personal. I would speak to her parents and recommend they do some research. I would also encourage you to research working with girls with autism. Many girls go undiagnosed because their autism doesn't present in the same way as boys but this sounds very like typical female symptoms.

Or maybe maths just isn’t her subject like it wasn’t mine?! some children are more skilled and adept at English lit and language like I was.

Mine also wasn’t helped by the fact my form teacher at age 9 hated me as I couldn’t catch a ball (I wore glasses due to a corrected squint) and maths was her favourite subject so she’d shout and bully me and put me off maths for life. I don’t think I’m ND either.

Riversideandrelax · 18/06/2024 17:27

Sorry, I see she is 12 the same age as my DD.

WonderingWanda · 18/06/2024 17:27

One way you can help transfer the onus back on to her is to create RAG (Red Amber Green) sheets. Get her to identify the areas of weakness and where she feels confident.

Riversideandrelax · 18/06/2024 17:26

brightyellowflower · 18/06/2024 11:25

You need to get tough. If 6 hours of maths a week at school by her actual teacher isn't getting through to her, how can she blame you for 4 hours a month?

The biggest problem is that you can only work with what you're given. I hate to say it, but quite often it's the less able kids who also have less able parents, who think if they throw a load of money at tutoring their child will get top grades. It's like expecting a kid with zero coordination and zero fitness to become a tennis player because they get a lesson a week.

Taught a lovely (but dim) child 4 years ago. Mum has now paid for a private ADHD assessment. There's not an ounce of ADHD in her. She's just not that bright. Be interesting to see what happens when she starts on the medication let's just say that!

Does she really get 6 hours per week at school? My DD gets just over 3 hours per week.

But no, of course it isn't all your responsibility. It does sound like she is trying hard. Are her parents putting a lot of pressure on her? How old is she?

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 18/06/2024 17:25

Not your fault she’s thick (yeah that’s mean!) 🤣.

I get that it’s good money but couldn’t you find another pupil rather than this spoiled brat. She’d be best with someone specialised in maths too.

For what it’s worth I was at private school for 3 years, hated and wasn’t good at maths but got better gradually and with the help of a private tutor. Only ended up with a D in maths. I just really didn’t see much of it making sense. If I’d known years later re interest rates, mortgage calculations, loan calculations and been taught that way re maths I’d have learnt better but Pythagoras theorem was never going to be much use to me!

My DM used to tutor primary school students for entry into private secondary schools. It’s true, it’s hard but both parents and students have to have realistic expectations as there is only so much you can do, if they don’t want to learn or put the hard work in then they don’t, but they can improve.

Nn9011 · 18/06/2024 17:20

I suspect she is neurodivergent, likely autism based on what you've explained so far - difficulty or slowness picking up certain processes unless explained in particular ways, perfectionist , anxiety, highly sensitive and an injustice about the teacher's attitude towards her even if it isn't personal. I would speak to her parents and recommend they do some research. I would also encourage you to research working with girls with autism. Many girls go undiagnosed because their autism doesn't present in the same way as boys but this sounds very like typical female symptoms.

jennylamb1 · 18/06/2024 17:19

One of the benefits of being a self-employed private tutor I found was that I could drop a pupil if not working out. I didn't really have any rude pupils since mine were a bit younger, however I did have a policy of not continuing with families who cancelled late repeatedly. I had one mum who cancelled 30 minutes before a lesson because they fancied going to the park instead.

zingally · 18/06/2024 16:49

Hi OP,
I also tutor informally in the evenings. For the sake of an hour a week, her performance in school isn't really your concern, and there's not THAT much you can do in that time.

Back at Christmas I dropped a Year 6 pupil who I was tutoring for maths. I saw her an hour a week (that was all her parents could afford, and I don't do discounts), and she was WAY behind age-related expectations. I'd say that she was working at end of Year 2 level.
Parents were getting pushier and pushier about her achieving particular grades in her SATs. It just wasn't going to happen. No chance. I tried every which way to explain to them that looking at past SATs papers wasn't going to help her when she was still adding to 10 on her fingers, and doesn't even know her 2x tables.

loropianalover · 18/06/2024 16:22

Doesn’t sound worth it OP, especially if parents not onboard with assessments which could possibly get her exemptions and extra help at school. She’s 12 getting 4 hours a week tutoring on top of her normal school hours - imagine how much tutoring she’s going to need when she’s 16/17!

I probably wouldn’t sign up to continue tutoring her, you really dont seem to enjoy it and it will only get harder.

TheCompactPussycat · 18/06/2024 16:12

Whendothingsstarttoimprove · 18/06/2024 11:19

@TeenDivided We dedicated the majority of time to maths the last few weeks and when she’s with me she understands the concepts and gets in correct. She showed me the test results paper yesterday and we went through it and she got the answers right. She made some silly mistakes, but I’m beginning to feel a bit annoyed that she seems to be attributing all her marks to me and being angry when she gains a low mark

When you say she understands the concepts and gets it correct, is that at the point at which you are teaching that concept? So you go through it with her and then she can understand it and get it right.

Does she still understand it and get it right at the next lesson without you going back over it? What about 1 week or 2 weeks later?

If she appears to understand and then gets things wrong in a test at a later date, I would suggest this would be more of a medium-term memory problem.

Whatever though, it is not your responsibility to get her the marks.

jennylamb1 · 18/06/2024 16:05

It sounds as if she may have dyslexia or a related specific learning difficulty, I have tutored pupils previously who had issues with moving learning from short term to long term memory and with working memory because of dyslexia. The pupil I'm thinking of also had issues with cognitive capacity when it came to tests. If she was fresh to it her result was very different compared to if a test was at the end of a long day with lots of mentally demanding lessons before for instance.
The girl I was teaching was very polite and easy to get on with though, if your pupil is being this rude I would quietly drop and pick up another pupil, there is plenty of work out there and if she's got a bad attitude I would be out.

Valeriekat · 18/06/2024 15:57

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 18/06/2024 11:36

Bright** aww that's a bit mean calling the kid dim. My DD has just sat her GCSEs and battled with maths all her school life (no SEN or contributory factors) and has had a maths tutor every week for the past 3 years. Despite working like a Trojan I don't expect she'll set the results world on fire with her grade but it would really upset me to think her tutor would consider her dim.

Some kids just are dim unfortunately.
In some ways tutoring just masks those problems. What did she get for her KS2 SATs?

Sue152 · 18/06/2024 15:52

I think you're taking this much too personally, you have to remember she's only 12, possibly neurodiverse and she's come a long way. If she's a perfectionist then she's probably pretty angry and frustrated with herself - and projecting that onto you. You give her a lot more than just the ability to get a high grade in a test, you've given her the confidence, self esteem and self belief to be able to be in school (by the sounds of it) and that is priceless.

Allicanteat · 18/06/2024 15:51

Not liking things noved could be adhd or asd.
She doesnt seem to have a good short term memory so its surprising she does so well on other subjects. But perhaps she just struggles to recognise the topic.
Im effectively tutoring my y7 for maths
They do cover a lot quickly so by the time of the next test shes forgotten some of it.
But some things like recognising she needs to convert cm3 to m3 where is doesnt actually ask you she misses.
Im convinced mine knows enough to get 95%+ but her last test was only 60%.

Have you put your student under exam conditions - could she work really slowly?

My youngest has an awful memory, it affects her spellings so we practice and the night before she gets 10/10 and yet by the test its 8/9. It does seem to affect her maths too, still cant do all times tables. And whilst actually pretty good at maths isnt retaining from one week to the next.
I think overall the curriculum doesnt revisit things enough. Coming back to things at the same time of year in primary isnr enough.

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