To wonder whether this could be neurodiversity?

I'd wonder about a combo to be honest, despite earlier thinking they have a high rate of comorbidity.

My DD always said she was "bad" at school. I thought she meant she couldn't keep up academically when her results were actually good. She meant she was bad at the systems, structure, socialising etc. She was dx AuDHD at 15.

I would also wonder about ADHD over autism.

I have enormous empathy and I'm actually a great communicator, but it is situation dependant.

Socially, I always struggled and could never get on the inside of inner social circles.

Noisy situations, such as the dinner hall, were overwhelming for me. I preferred to find a quiet place where I could read or draw. I joined the lunchtime photography club for this very reason.

I didn't have a clue about the unspoken social rules.

I could do eye contact, but found it excruciating.

I'm bright, but couldn't learn in the bigger classes, nor was the teaching style back then suitable for me. I'd zone out, then freeze.

Teachers couldn't understand how I'd do so poorly, then given a creative writing piece, would produce fantastic stories with loads of detail. English and art were my things. I taught myself to read and write before I started school.

This is only a brief snapshot of a very difficult childhood where I just couldn't fit in, and thought there was something wrong with me. This carried on into adulthood until my diagnoses of autism and ADHD, then bang! I had a very good reason for my difficulties.

I cannot even start to tell you the difference this has made to my life and the validation it's given me. My life and work are infinitely better, and I'm finally climbing the ladder in work as I have the right support in work.

Please consider assessment for her, it could really change how she continues in life.

Also wanted to add to my earlier post, the book ‘nurturing you autistic young person’ by Cathy Wassell was so helpful for me to finally understand my neurodivergent daughter (and to realise she is neurodivergent in the first place). It’s like my go to manual. Those reasons the nhs listed as indicating not autistic are all traits mostly masking girls (sometimes boys too) have.

Whether or not you and your DD want to pursue a diagnosis, what you can do right now regardless of diagnosis is reinforce that it is absolutely ok to be her. The counsellor she had was clearly not skilled/up to date in neurodivergence and your DD does not have to mask in the way she has been told to.

What was revelatory for me being late diagnosed was unlearning all the things I had been told I was supposed to do. All those years I thought I was just weird or broken, when actually who makes the rules that says being constantly social is a requirement? That sitting in the library (something I still do for a breather when I am in town, but started at school) is the wrong thing to do? I have spent so much of my life ducking into toilet cubicles just to try and get some space from being overstimulated in social situations. All of those things were me trying to look after myself and that's a good thing! More of that! I'm not suggesting your DD shuts herself away forever with a maths book, but what she might find is that accepting her differences will actually make some of the socialising easier in the small amounts right for her.

That is bizarre!

Ime, Autistic people have more empathy than NT people.
Many Autistic people have some eye contact especially girls.
Autistic people can struggle with social imagination not imagination in general.
You've put a strategy in to place that helps many Autistic people.

In my experience, having a diagnosis is not what will "make her feel something is wrong with her" at all. That will be caused by not having a diagnosis and feeling like she is always getting things 'wrong' or that everyone else knows what to do and she doesn't but has no reason for that so just feels stupid instead.

Yesterday she was telling me how overwhelming she finds the school dining hall. It’s so big with so much background noise. The tables are for 9 or 10. She says she finds it hard to focus on conversation whilst eating at the same time. She can’t keep up and so tends to zone out instead and not even try.

This sounds like auditory processing disorder, something which I have struggled with for my whole life. It also explains why she is at the edge of conversations since her brain can't process them!

During the pandemic when everyone was wearing masks I discovered that I was lip reading, a skill I didn't know I had picked up.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/auditory-processing-disorder/

Sounds nd yes.

This was an NHS assessment. We filled in paperwork which was triaged and waited a good few years for the actual assessment which was with a paediatric consultant and a speech therapist. They are a few of the comments given as to why she didn't meet the "diagnostic threshold".

They also said no social skills training is available via NHS whether autistic or not but it may be available via schools (again this would be regardless of a diagnosis... Purely whether they need help or not)

I am not sure if this kind of thing is a bit of a "postcode lottery"? Help is definitely available via school though if child is willing to accept it.

@ILoveDaysOff I’m amazed to hear they gave those reasons. My son has diagnosed ASD - he has eye contact and does feel empathy. They sound out of date with recent research into ASD and hyper empathy which autistic people experience

You need a second opinion. As PP says, that's an outrageous list! Was DC actually assessed by specialists or just screened out by a team who triage referrals?

Sounds like autism (SEN teacher here with psychology background).

This was me at school but with reading. Diagnosed in my 30s ADHD, medication and knowledge of my neurodiversity changed my life as it explained things. I think you being aware of her possible ND will allow you to support her better without telling her if you’re not ready to do this yet.

I have ADHD, also tend to zone out especially in group conversations, especially when there are multiple conversations going on around me.

But those things don’t indicate ADHD in themselves (or, autism/other neurodivergences, as far as I understand, although I know less about those).

Could be worth getting her assessed if you think this is impacting on her?

Sounds like neurodiversity to me but I would be wary of making her fit into some mould. Maybe she does not want to be social and is quite happy doing her own thing and implying to her she should be behaving in a certain way could make her feel she is failing. If she finds the school dining room overwhelming it might be worth speaking to the school to see if she can eat her lunch elsewhere. Both my GDs are ASD and one in particular struggles with eating in noisy places so she is allowed to eat somewhere quiet with just one friend. Having a safe quiet place to go like the library sounds like she is adapting.

As others have said masking is not great so having some sort of skills training to imply she should be behaving like everyone else may not be to her benefit and damage her mental health. Does she say that she feels she needs support or wants some things to change to make her happier?

Not all SS is 'bad' - the ones that encourage eye contact to make friends etc aren't great - but ones that focus on sharing what conversation partners may expect to see and to help the child find workaround strategies, are good! Ditto an intervention that promotes self advocacy, to help her share how she wishes to communicate and so on, could be good

Out of curiosity how did a diagnose help you? I’m considering testing but at the same time I wonder if say, I’m ND, what would that change on go forward basis

She sounds like me when I was a child. I'm 54 now and only diagnosed in the last few years. I've got an early start tomorrow, so will come back to the thread.

I do all of those things and I’m autistic 🤷‍♀️

In fact some of those ideas are very old fashioned. It’s widely accepted that autistic people are empathetic and earlier research which said they aren’t is wrong. Eye contact is part of masking, which girls are known to be better at. And lots of us are very imaginative - I’m a published author for example.

OP maybe your DD would benefit from being assessed, then at least you would know.

Just from what you say it is possible yes.

My autistic DD is 12 and still very young for her age. It's tough for them as with my DD she started Y7 with more of the maturity of a Y5. There is so much for them to learn and take on board - homework and packing bags and equipment. DD struggles with noise and crowds and can also struggle with joining/following conversations. She likes to go to the Learning support centre where she does colouring or drawing with some other girls. She also has a Learning Mentor she can go to.

I hope your DD can get the support she needs.