To think this is neglectful parenting?

I have DTs who are the same age as yours and when they stay with their father (I didn't have a crystal ball either to predict how much of a tw*t he would end up being!) he doesn't stick to the routine I have in place for them, and which I know keeps them happy and settled.

It's very easy for people to say "oh let him do his own thing" but I pay the price for the coming days when they are overtired and overstimulated because of how he parents. So I completely understand.

I really don't understand how any 2 year olds would sleep in until noon! Mine have never slept in beyond 7:30am! I suspect he slept in and your child was left awake and unsupervised.

On the other hand- he might be stealth boasting "oh DC sleeps so well for ME!" My ex-DH likes to do this too...

I agree I don't allow it. I can't control what their father does . Even if I said that's not on etc he would liar to me anyway.

@Ds8and9 so these very young kids are left alone, until whatever time of night unsupervised and connected to the internet via a games console? Why? What's wrong with some boundaries?

I’d definitely be worried about how long she was in a nappy and how many hours she was ignored for while your ex slept. I do think it sounds neglectful tbh

When my kids were in nappys and If was hoping for a lay in. I would do an extra nappy change early hours of the morning.

I never worried about afternoon naps Because life happens.

If I was invited to lunch out there's no way I would say no sorry baby / toddler is napping.

My youngest are 8/9 now. So older but their dad gos to bed and leaves ds on play station all night. No idea what time they go to sleep. I know there's a massive difference between a toddler and 8 year old . I'm judt trying to say people do things differently you can't control what others do.

As long as your child is not put in danger that's all that matters

Guys this child is 2 years old, probably barely verbal and still in nappies. No, they shouldn't 'pick their own bedtime'. Honestly the parents here who are lax about routines rules and screens are absolutely the reason I have to teach tired and dysregulated children all day long. Parent your children!!

Another one here who is sure your daughter must have woken up before 12 noon OP. Sorry but I’ve got three and never, ever has one slept past 9am and even then only if they were unwell.

Leaving her in the same nappy all that time is also dreadful. Her skin would have been red raw. I hope he gave her some nappy free time afterwards. He’s clearly a big baby and trying to get a reaction from you. I’m not sure why you’re getting a hard time from some on here

Op please consider that neglect is subjective. Leaving a child in a soiled nappy for 12 hours plus is obviously neglect. Raising children with no idea how to regulate sleep is neglect to me but may not be to others. Leaving a child to sleep to midday and miss key meal times - two in fact without checking on her is clearly neglect.

Yes pp can parent differently but the basics such as good, regular nutrition, adequate sleep and being kept clean are really basic.

I would recommend you negotiate bringing her home to sleep until she is older as a minimum. He does not sound remotely up to the job, and I would be concerned about her safety there. Contact does not come before safety.

I think it's a different style of parenting. We've never really forced my daughter to go to bed before she's ready and she generally chooses to go to bed at a sensible time when she's tired. The issue is she's being parented differently in two different places so she's not going to learn to do that if she's being kept in a routine in one house and allowed to set her own at another house. You can't stop contact with her Dad over this, it would absolutely not be in her best interests to lose one parent because he parents differently, but you do need to work with him and find a compromise that works for both of you.

MissB77778 · Yesterday 18:52
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Thank you! Thought I was going crazy after reading all these responses”

No, you’re really not. Some of them are batshit.

Obviously a challenging situation for you, but I don’t think a dramatic response is warranted, unless she is showing obvious distress or signs of neglect or there are substance misuse issues or other factors you are concerned about.

She missed breakfast and had lunch an hour later than her normal routine - not the same as missing both breakfast and lunch. He seems like he is caring for her, bathing etc, if she had a late night or possibly wasn’t settled over night and was sleeping, he was right not to wake her up. If she was hungry or uncomfortable she would have woken up and demanded attention?

He seems to be being open with you, not on the defensive, which is a good sign and it would be helpful to keep a dialogue going. Do you know why he struggles with a routine? Does she find it hard to settle there? If you can let him know how the change in routine disrupts her getting up for nursery etc, without going in all guns blazing, that could be helpful. If she has a bad nappy rash as a result, it obviously needs to be flagged.

How does she know what time it was? Are you sure she’s got it right?

12 hours in a nappy overnight seems pretty normal to me. Many toddlers go to bed about 7.30pm and wake around 7.30am next morning. No one thinks that is unusual or neglectful?

Not having a strict routine doesn't mean complete chaos, it's just more flexible and the parents react to how tired the child is. The main difference that I've seen is that the parent doesn't have a panic if their kid naps at the wrong time or they're not in bed by 7pm sharp.

Mine probably doesn't go to bed later than average on school nights, if he is he might be a little tired getting up for school but will then go to bed early the following night. He's very flexible with things changing at weekends, meals not being at an exact planned time, family coming over and staying up late.

I'm amused that you think having a flexible bedtime is failing to prepare them for adulthood, I'm not sure I've worked with anyone that has had to leave after work drinks because their mum says it's their bedtime? Don't most adults who know how to recognise they're tired just decide to go home for themselves?

That seems very harsh, you can't know whether this guy is simply finding his feet. You also don't know the other side of the story. There will be one.
You can't simply stop parents from seeing their child because of bedtime & suspicion. The harm it does to children to break important relationships is devastating. And they often don't recover.
How about encouraging the routine or talking to him? Better still talk as an equal parent.
As children gets older routines fall into place easier. It's frustrating that he's not as organised as she is, but she's suggesting removing him from her life or stopping DD from staying. That's a total over reaction

This sounds so tough, I honestly couldn’t stand the thought of my daughter not being cared for properly.

Yes you may not be able to prove that this is neglect, but it certainly raises red flags, and as other people say you should make sure your concerns are formally recorded with health visitor/ social worker. Yes it may not stop contact but if you ever go to children’s panel etc this is the sort of thing they want to know about.

At the end of the day I think you need to trust your gut and you know better than anyone else on this thread what’s likely to be going on. It certainly sounds like this is not a case of struggling to get to grips with the routine and more he just can’t be bothered to make sure she is being properly cared for.

I am one of the ‘no routine types’ but my 16 month old is always in bed between 7-9pm. You know your daughter best, mine is a nightmare for anyone else so can see how someone else would really struggle to get her settled and then have a later night, but even still I’m calling bullshit at the noon wake up.

Focus on keeping a record/ evidence if possible. Did she come hungry/thirsty? Nappy rash? Clean/ clean clothes. Even general mood. Easy to go to bed/waking up in morning? All these things are small but if you are seeing patterns then it is a cause for concern and speak to health visitor.

Uh oh.. it wouldn't be right for you to prevent her staying with her dad or seeing him because he's doing it differently to you. That's her dad, she probably loves him & he loves her, that matters.
Maybe make some practical suggestions, 'she seems really happy with x whenever she's staying at yours, maybe she could do with keeping to a routine...of course I'd never patronise you by telling you how to parent of course you know this'....etc etc. Perhaps you could try this approach.
Don't stop her seeing him that seems like an over reaction

Oh @orangeleopard feel for you so much with the eczema, I have the same issue where my son's eczema often flares up at his dad's, though luckily his dad actually does care and sort of tries to hoover and wash sheets etc but not enough.

I understand what you’re saying but my point is if his parenting is allowed to continue into later on in her life, particularly if he fights for 50/50 or even every weekend when she starts school it will absolutely harm her. If this was an older child who had no fixed bedtime, missing meals, not having their teeth cleaned etc then people wouldn’t hesitate to call it neglect. If the OP posts similar years later people on here would say “well, you had evidence of neglect years ago but you did nothing and allowed it to snowball because you put it down to him having a different parenting style ” as others would happily have it on this thread. He has form for being abusive, abusive people only care about themselves. Good parents respect and work hard to keep a child’s routine the same and don’t abuse their other parent. I’d argue messing with her routine to that degree that often is harming her now. I would raise concerns myself if it were my child with my HV or nursery and have my concerns officially recorded by a professional as evidence for preventative measures in the future even if it’s not considered by some enough now. The likelihood is if she is in a routine and wakes at 8 you can guarantee she was awake at 8 her dads too because child or adult that’s how the human body clock works when a person is in a structured routine. Based on that, there is a very strong chance she’s been left for four hours awake in a soiled nappy without adequate food for an extended period of time. That is harming her physically. He clearly sees no fault in his behaviour, so he won’t change it. He has proven he cannot be bothered to work in the best interests of his child.

It's really annoying and inconsiderate to you, and probably pretty lazy parenting, but it's not neglect. The meals and the nappy are a red herring, it's the staying up all night that's the issue, but again, that isn't neglect, it's just not great for her or you. I say that as a someone who co-parents two children with someone who is much more lax about routines and screens than I am, though he's not nearly as bad as your ex by the sound of it. The really frustrating thing is the dads in these situation end up being seen as the fun ones because the mums are the one doing all the day to day "boring" routines and making them go to bed on time! It's infuriating.

The only thing you can do is talk to him about how tired she is during the week if she stays up all night at the weekend, and hope that he cares about that.

@MissB77778 never been an issue. Sometimes they were a little tired if we'd been out in an evening but with my older ones now teens, my little ones have to stay up sometimes, due to picking up from clubs and activities.
Do adults have routine? Sometimes I go to bed at 9pm sometimes 1am. I still get up for work as it's what I have to do.
My older ones have decided their own bedtime since they became teenagers, they sleep when they're tired. Never caused an issue with school.

I sympathise with you OP. I’m in a similar situation where my son only goes to his dads every other weekend and he has no routine and everything gets messed due to his negligent behaviour and by the time I get our son into a routine again, it’s time to go to his dads again. It’s exhausting being the parent who does the hard work and raising the child to hand them over to a parent who does the bare minimum. There’s an issue at the moment where my son’s eczema is controlled at home without a flare up and as soon as he goes to his dad’s, he comes home with a massive flare up. I suspect it’s because his dads home is not very clean and that dust is the trigger - but his dad is not interested in getting to the bottom of it because he knows he hands him back over and I get it under control again.

I guess my point of what I’m trying to say is that the parents who have their children minimal time such as eow think that they can get away with doing the bare minimum because it’s a short amount of time. Yet if us who have our children full time put the minimum effort in and do what they do, we’d have our children taken off us for being neglectful.

@ButWhatAboutTheBees

7:30am is a very early start for a 2 year old and is probably why she's tired.

Tell that to my toddler please...and come to think of it, just about every other toddler I know! They sleep 7pm to 7am at best!

I don't think routine is the most important thing in the world. I've never had routines with any of my children as we like to be flexible with what we do on the evenings/wekeends.
When my older ones are with their dad, he is parenting them not me, I don't tell him what to do with them as he is as much their parents as I am and this has been the case
Since they were small.