To think this is neglectful parenting?

THIS

Exactly!

I've been coparenting since my youngest was born. He left when I was pregnant. I hated the first couple of years. We still have different routines but our children have got used to it, a decade later. I see that you've already said that maybe you used the wrong word - "neglectful". I don't think it's neglectful either but I know why it's hard for you. Legally, he isn't doing anything that would mean you can end your arrangement. You should try and agree on certain things but you'll also have to accept that you have absolutely no control over what happens when they're with their other parent. Co-parenting is very difficult. It caused me a great deal of anguish. I hated that I couldn't bring up my children how I had envisioned. I couldn't control what happened outside of my own house, only what I did as a parent. The things that mattered 10 years ago don't matter any more - so when he let them sleep too much or stay up... they can't do that as they're at school. Did it affect them growing up? I don't know. Now I worry because he sometimes doesn't make them go into school because of 'tummy bugs'. I suspect he's slept in, he says they're ill. They tell me they aren't ill and he's slept in. I'm not dragging them into school to grass up their dad. I accept that they miss a couple of days of school per year. If they were at home with me all the time they'd have 100% attendance. Does it bother me? Yes. Enough to fall out with their dad and put them in the middle? Definitely not. I can see that you've responded positively to people agreeing with you, and a bit defensively to those who say yabu - so I don't know how you will take this. My advice would be choose your battles and you're going to have to let some things go. He's probably lazy but there's nothing you can do about it. If that continues, your kids will naturally make their own mind up and listen to you more, without you doing a thing. I know from experience.

Im not extremely judgemental. In fact I could have said the same about you to the OP. We can agree to disagree because there is nothing anyone will say that can change my mind on this.

OP I don't think you are being unreasonable, I work alongside Children's Services and I know for a fact that this being a regular occurrence would be seen as neglect. As you said, was she asleep until midday, or was he? Although I would be wary of questioning him about it just yet, because I'd be concerned about him not communicating with you about what happens on his time. I would however be logging everything and collecting any evidence you can. I'd be so upset at sending my kids too, sending hugs.

You are extremely judgemental. Sounds like you know best isn't it?! Of course you do ..
In my experience of raising 3 children successfully
Children learn different boundaries & rules in different environments, & just because one parent is not as regimented or boundaried as another one does not take priority. A father is just as important as a mother.
And I will say again, we only have one side of this.
This is not abuse, or dangerous to long term development.
I do not see why if it is that important to the mother that she cannot communicate with her ex partner & they should be able to work together for the benefit of this child & family.

I also agree she didn't sleep that long....likely his mother came in and got her up and left him sleeping

well that is not have the majority of parenting works, including the OP in this case

I really feel for you OP having to co parent with someone must be so difficult!

I agree with other posters I doubt your child had actually slept till 12 but rather he hasn’t got up with her

May be worth speaking to the HV? Or could you speak to his mum?

I wouldn’t worry too much about the nappy if my son is settled I leave his nappy on overnight and that may be 12 hours- unless your child’s skin is sore.

I do agree routine is important apart from
one off important events which this isn’t an overtired child is not nice for anyone!

I don’t think the courts would stop contact over it though if he took it to court.

Could he just have her in the day rather than overnight ?

I suspect the sleeping til 12 thing is a lie.

We seriously do and it works well. We've allowed her to learn to recognise her "tired" cues and will say when she's ready, "I'm tired, can I go to bed now?" and she goes and gets her PJs on, does her teeth, then we read stories for a bit and and after that I cuddle her for a few minutes and she goes off to sleep. Most nights it's around 8:30pm, she was flower girl at a wedding on Saturday and she chose to stay up until 11ish as the adrenaline kept her going. Bedtime has never been negative for her, she enjoys it and she has a choice when it happens.

Has it ever occurred to you that there might be a reason why so many adults ignore their own tired cues and end up depriving themselves of sleep? The concept of bedtime being something unwelcome and enforced is ingrained in us from a young age and we end up resisting it well into adulthood!

He's being neglectful as so many people have said, and while this one off might not be enough to stop contact, if you can show its part of a wider pattern you'll have a stronger case.

From now on keep a diary and document everything.

this sounds chaotic and definitely not ideal for your daughter especially if she is used to routine with you. I don't know if it counts as neglect - I think ultimately if she is fed, rested, clean etc then nobody would legally do anything about it - but it really doesn't sound great and if I were in your shoes I'd also be deeply distressed by it. Doesn't sound like your ex is taking her needs particularly seriously, or centring her in his life.

Keep notes of everything, is all I can say right now. Try to have these conversations by text/email so there is a paper trail from him. It may not amount to anything but it's better to have it all in hand if things were to escalate in future.

So sorry you're in this position. It must be awful to be handing your toddler over to someone whose approach is so different and so apparently lacking in care or understanding.

What time did she GO to sleep. Its perfectly fine not to wake a sleeping child to change a nappy, child 'can' sleep up to 12 hours in 1 nappy perfectly safely and hes right you can't force them to sleep longer than they need so she slept as long as was suitable to her.

Why would she need a bath then? a bath first thing after waking up is weird.

You sound controlling to be honest, its really not that big of a deal and 'breakfast' is simply the first meal after you wake up regardless of time. Just because you believe in made up 'time routines' doesn't mean other parents have too. He is equally the parent and can choose the sleep pattern on his time that he wants even if thats not 'your way'.

Its in no way 'neglect' just because its not what you do and its actually insulting when people compare their 'opinion' to actual neglect/abuse. Children die from being overlooked in the over stretched system because people just want to be petty to their ex's or family etc... and its really NOT acceptable.

I imagine that style of parenting could work for a family that are self employed and home educate and just eat and work and sleep when they feel like it. That's not the lifestyle that this child has though and it doesn't sound like it's meeting her needs.

I don’t know if you’ve replied to the wrong post because not once have I said she needs to cut contact. I’ve said multiple times that she needs to document with a professional and seek advice. She’s asked for advice so we’re giving it to her. In my personal opinion meal times and changing your child isn’t about finding your feet. She’s not a young baby, she’s two, she’s in nursery. It’s basic care. If you can’t do that then you shouldn’t have unsupervised contact for as long as he is. He needs to recognise he’s not looking after her as he should be and either get on board or stop having her for overnights until he can if he’s really struggling that badly and that’s giving him the benefit of the doubt big time. If he’s struggling why is he proud of breaking her routine and not making a single amount of effort to reach out for help? There’s no evidence in this thread to back up what you’re suggesting at all so you’re just making stuff up to suit your own narrative when you have no clue. The only person who has any idea here is the OP but you seem to think you know more of what’s going on that she does. So please do enlighten us all, we would love to hear it? He’s not struggling at all, he’s just being lazy. It gets easier to put older children’s routines into place when they have a structured life yes, not if there’s been years of the child being allowed to skip meals and sleep and do whatever they like when they like because it’s easier for the parent to just let them do what they want than bother to stick to a routine. Have you ever tried putting a child into a routine where they’ve been given zero boundaries by a parent? Absolute nightmare. You see on here all the time one parent who works hard to give them a good routine and the Disney parent who can’t be assed with structured parenting because it’s too much like hard work. It’s not even as though he needs to build a routine from scratch because OP has done all of the donkey work to ensure he wouldn’t need to. She doesn’t just need a routine when she’s older, she’s in nursery full time now because her mum is a full time worker. She needs it now. It’s not fair on the child who will struggle with her routine being broken because he can’t be bothered. She needs routine now because good parents who want to co-parent effectively work together to keep everything in such a way that a child knows what to expect. It creates much less anxiety for a child who has structure. Children that already have good routines in place in multiple places are very easy to get into a good routine elsewhere because as I’ve mentioned multiple times their body clock and metabolisms are already used to working off a set amount of sleep and receiving meals regularly at around the same time. Again it’s all about having higher acceptable standards and stop making excuses for rubbish parenting. You seem to have totally missed the part where he’s abusive and dipped in and out of her life for her earliest years. Abusive people typically don’t make wonderful parents. That’s not an opinion, that’s a fact.

I wouldn’t be letting her go back for an overnight if he was allowing a 2 year old to choose her own bedtime and not get up until 12. It’s just lazy parenting and if he couldn’t be arsed to step up to the mark then he wouldn’t be having her overnight imo. It makes me wonder what his mothers opinion is on this if he’s staying there and she’s working the next day. It makes you wonder what else he’s lazy about when he has her tbh.

you cannot seriously live like this,
of course children need bed times as decided by parents not the child!

it is a horrible way to treat a 2 year old imo
really lazy @MissB77778
i hope you can change his attitude towards parenting

Lazy but not neglect. She missed one meal and had a slightly later lunch. Perhaps she had a late snack?
Routine is not everything OP but it helps .
I would talk to him about how tired she was the next day and ask for his help with routine

A parent this lax is going to be equally lax about security and safety.

I don't blame you for finding this extremely annoying. I was only-slightly jokingly told a friend that I seriously considered divorcing DH over his inability to get the children to bed at a decent time... except then I'd have to accept that during his time with the children they wouldn't get any sleep at all and that would be worse as I wouldn't be there to sort it out after.

But you are also being a little OTT re the meals. Children can miss meals, especially if they were sleeping. I imagine she slept in a bit, at worst, she woke up late and he ignored her for a bit but she clearly wasn't making a massive song and dance as even a shit dad would wake up.

It's bloody annoying though, especially as inevitably it impacts you over the week.

Can you swap to her having her overnight on a friday? So you've got more of a chance to get her settled again before the week starts?

It’s poor parenting but it doesn’t meet the legal threshold for neglect, which would warrant involving the authorities and looking at removing custody.

I guess I just don’t see why it’s a massive deal if kids eat an extra meal late night before and skip breakfast some days or if lunch is 1:30/2 vs 12 some days or if nappy is worn midnight - noon vs 7pm-7am some night when they sleep well.
If your child thrives on routine I suppose it’s a bit shit not to give them one but ultimately many children are also pretty flexible and will be fine with or without things being done on a fixed schedule. If it’s more he’s messing up the way you’d like to parent I sympathise but don’t think he’s doing anything wrong really. If it’s more he’s messing up a routine your child needs to function then that’s pretty shit.

My 2 year old often is in her nappy for over 12 hours - she sleeps 8-8 and put her nappy on after bath so she'd prob have it it on for 13 hours. I think this is pretty unavoidable.

BUT I have never known a 2 year old to sleep until noon unless they are very poorly. Even if they went to bed late this would be extremely unusual. I agree it's bonkers that he let this happen. Do you believe he was concerned? Was he checking on her? I'd be going out of my mind