To think droves of teachers will make the decision by husband made today- to leave

@RedToothBrush totally agree with this. The attitude is always some other mug will do it because people have become selfish, entitled and lazy. Which I guess isn't a massive problem when it's organising things like events as you mentioned but when it's things like potty training your toddler or helping your little one to read or disciplining your child, it becomes a big problem and becomes everybody else's problem rather than the parents.

But this is what teachers are having to resort to in order to work “normal hours” like everyone else.

Yes, I know. I was agreeing that it was terrible that this is what happens. I'm the only full timer in my department. I'd love to be part time. It would make my job manageable. But with one dc at university and another one off in two years, we need the money.

Do you know what the full time equivalent pay would be for teachers then if they worked 40 hours per week ? So teachers are paid for an average of 24 hours a week? But obviously work more in term time and none/a few in the 13 weeks holidays?

But this is what teachers are having to resort to in order to work “normal hours” like everyone else.

The parental attitude has been 'can't I just throw money at this, i don't have time. I have a really important job. Etc etc'.
Thats because they’re cash rich and time poor. Because the cost of living is too high, houses are too expensive, so both parents have to work and nobody has any spare time any more. Employers aren’t helping because they insist that anyone with a “really important job” has to work full time 9-5.

I dropped down to 4 days and the school kept asking me if I'd come in on supply on my day off. I know they were desperate but there was a very good reason why I stopped working full time.

Lots of teachers go ”part time” so they can work just 40 hours. It’s ridiculous.

So true. Being paid a part time salary to work a 40 hour week is just unacceptable.

Also, teachers are not paid for the holidays. Their salary is spread equally across 12 months of the year, but only covers 1265 hours + directed time (DT) - that does not include holidays. In case someone says that 1265 + DT is much less than most people work, the average hours worked per year are 2000 (40hpw x 52 = 2,080); many teachers work more hours than that, essentially unpaid.

Clearly this has to be true given how many teachers left last year. Honestly, how can people still parrot this nonsense? There is a massive issue in teaching and parents trying to gaslight teachers is part of the problem. The job has become awful for so many now and something needs to be done for the sake of all our kids. My eldest is being taught by a constant stream of supply teachers as staff member after staff member leave- not because of the school or the leadership which are by all accounts supportive- but because of Ofsted, government education policy and kids who know there are no consequences for their awful behaviour and parents who enable in and abuse teachers. The Tories have spent years telling the public teachers aren't to be respected and parents and children have got the message loud and clear.
Only a total idiot would believe teachers are the problem here.

No child who is not able to use the lavatory should be admitted to a reception or nursery class. It's a simple solution to having to potty train other people's children. Schools across the UK need to make it clear to parents that potty training is their responsibility - and the government also needs to support this (currently it is not - see below). When my DS went to playschool (a sadly depleted movement) he had to be out of nappies at three. This seemed and seems utterly reasonable. Is the problem that very small children are in nurseries and that the staff do not have time to potty train the children? If it is, then the entire encouragement of very young children in nurseries is totally cock-eyed and needs to end. That children turn up at nursery/reception in nappies is the surest evidence that only providing financial support to families where both parents go out to work is utterly stupid.
Do we have to wait for the first 16-year-old MP to turn up in the House of Commons to take their seat wearing nappies to realise this?

My experience has that there has been a significant change in attitude from parents in terms of helping to run any kind of event - be it school, after school or any other thing.

The local area has always had loads of these type of organisations. Now they can't recruit.

The parental attitude has been 'can't I just throw money at this, i don't have time. I have a really important job. Etc etc'. Instead they look around at everyone else, thinking its not their responsibility and then getting irrate when it all goes to shit. Its burning up so much good will.

Except the people who have been doing these things for years, have/had important full on jobs and often other commitments, but they prioritised doing these things because they were valued.

Now they are taken for granted, so everythings folding. Even in places with good senses of community. Because people can't be arsed.

I think that sense really comes through to me.

Its in and across everything.

@Blimpton I hear you. It's not quite the same, but I'm a lecturer on a fractional post for that exact reason. I probably work around full time hours but they can't give me more teaching at least.

40-50 hours is still too much. I don't want exhausted stressed teachers in my son's school.

It’s not about the money. It’s about quality of life. 60+ hours a week is too much. I want to work 40-50 hours and be able to spend time with my family and have hobbies.

Lots of teachers go ”part time” so they can work just 40 hours. It’s ridiculous. Considering that a full time teaching job is approx 25 hours in the classroom, and the other 35 hours are paperwork.

@planAplanB how did we get here and how can it be fixed?

I'm so sad at th state of state education. I'm really sorry for all the stress teachers experience...and the good kids frankly. It's brutal.

My teaching salary was decent but I still quit due to stress and workload. Paying me more would not have made a difference.

We had to do toothbrushing in NE Scotland for many years. Teachers refused to do it so a PSA would come in after break and lunchtime - so 2 x 15 minutes teaching time lost every day on something that's a parental responsibility.

No-one should not be taught to read nonsense words (and this is not a requirement of teaching SSP) but one of the ways to help dyslexics is to teach them phonics properly. I have been wary of dyslexia as a diagnosis since I was an ESL teacher and tried to show that one of my students was dyslexic. The answer was that they could not be dyslexic because their first language was not English. Dyslexia is disproportionatly found among English speakers, which suggests it is the complex phonic code that is causing the problem. Which means the code needs teaching properly.
I don't see how the phonic check impinges on tests for dyslexia - it contains words at the phonics level of year 1 plus nonsense words which are of the same phonics level and phonically legal (i.e. they are not letter combinations that do not appear in English).
I don't know what you mean by 'read real words'. Any word not in a child's vocabulary is 'not real' to them until they read it and discover its meaning. And there are also words which we read which have no meaning e.g. ENSA, NAAFI, which are acronyms. Also, what are you doing with these? Stromkarl, hobbit, dwarves, borogroves etc? They are not real, they are made up (and all phonically regular), having no existence until the writer thought them.

@ILoveEYFS Don't forget brushing teeth (was that ever actually introduced?)

It is tough and getting tougher. Especially in Early years, we are expected to parent as well as teach. Potty training feeding etc. Its one of the reasons I quit after 17 years 😪

@Windywuss My son was bullied starting at Primary school. A very bright lad, 97th percentile in size, but wouldn't hit back. Due to his size he was seen as someone to bully to move up in the pecking order. His life was made a misery.

Many on here will find this abhorrent, but the only language these kids understand is when the person they are bullying hits back. Get the lad into martial arts class. it will be a good grounding for him. He only needs to catch one of the bully's arm once and give it a twist the "wrong" way for them to think twice. The bully's are like this because there is no come back and they know it.

I was in school until the mid-seventies. I could be lippy at times to the teachers. It only took 6 strokes of the cane once to cure me.

@Windywuss this is one area where I do blame some parents. My son is also autistic. He's been at a good primary school and they've been pretty good. I find so much is to do with parents.

So the little turd calling you a c bomb is likely to have parents who won't give a shit or do anything about it. I've come across a parent recently who behaved so horribly that it explained exactly why his awful child was behaving so appallingly and bullying him. Luckily where we are, most parents won't tolerate it and gang up on the feral ones via the school complaints system.

Hope you get somewhere soon with it all. 🙏

@Garibaldhead yes, excellently explained. You have articulated what I could see myself as a parent trying to teach various things during lockdown and supporting SATS revision. Absolute mountain of complex learning that goes beyond focusing on a basic foundation. You make complete sense. Why on earth are kids being subjected to this. I don't understand why teachers aren't up in arms about what they have to teach. Out of principle, this element alone that you describe would make it impossible for me to buy into as a teacher. My son raises this all the time. He's bright but he sees through alot of the nonsense. I have to agree with his observations, apologise that it's the law and I can't do much about it and encourage him to just apply himself and get through it.

@Windywuss I'm so sorry 😞 your poor ds.

Please don't be afraid of getting a bit angry with the school. Not abusive at all obviously, but it is OK for them to know you are very upset and you need to know what they are going to do to keep your son safe.

Have you kept a record of incidents? If not,, then I would start right now. Any conversation you have with someone at school, send an email to confirm what was said so that you have a traceable record.

The school should have policies on their website. Check the bullying policy, are they following it? Also look at the complaints policy. Who do you complain to in what order and start working your way through the proper complaint procedure and keep escalating it.

Chase the EHCP, it's criminal how long that takes.

Be the squeaky wheel.

It's no wonder some children refuse to go to school.

What's wrong with it, based on my experience of being in the classroom with the children being taught this stuff, is that so many of them don't really understand it. They are being taught it at primary school when they aren't ready to learn it. Even the ones who do learn it at the time mostly forget it in secondary school. There are children who struggle to write a coherent sentence being taught complex grammar rules that they don't have a hope of understanding. All they learn from that is that they aren't clever enough to do school work so why should they bother? Disengaged children are more likely to become disruptive.

The grammar is great for the bright kids that lap it up. My own children are propper grammar nerds. It's too overwhelming for too many though. If they had more time to work on basic skills they may be better placed to understand and learn this stuff.

It's the same in maths. Children being taught how to divide a fraction by a fraction when they have no understanding of place value, struggle with number bonds to 20 and have no real understanding of what division is. Instead of taking the time to have strong foundations they are being rushed through a curriculum that is beyond their grasp.

Can you imagine what it feels like spending all day every day being taught stuff that you just don't understand? They switch off so much that they won't even try to do the things they actually are capable of. Everything seems to be aimed at children of average ability or above. The lower ones are supposed to have "scaffolding" so they can understand but there's only so much scaffolding you can do. Especially when there isn't a TA in every class but there are multiple SEN children in every class.

@Windywuss bless you! it is so hard and there are no easy solutions. All you can do is to keep on doing the best you can for your son. These issues are too big for us to solve on an individual level. If moving is an option, there are still good schools out there. Wishing you both well! x