To think droves of teachers will make the decision by husband made today- to leave

But teaching is mostly about the transmission of knowledge. I am sorry your DS has problems with some insensitive teachers and glad that some 'get' him and that he has the ability to leave if he needs to.

Obviously there are exceptions: some deprived children will need so much more than a teacher can/should give. I was referring to children who have a stable home environment and not too heavy SEN/ mental health needs.

My eldest son is a SEN (Tsa 14 y old). He rarely misbehaves on purpose but can act "weird" making sounds, moving around etc and if others are misbehaving he will laugh out loud. He always have an assistant with him so if he's too excited she'll take him outside for a while. Some teachers "get" him and are kind and understanding (with firm boundaries ofcourse) and he thrives with them. Some teachers are condescendant and asks why he's there or just tell him harshly to stop fidgeting which stresses him even more and makes him fidget more so he always goes out during their lessons.
Guess I just wanted to make a point that yes, some pupils are hard to deal with, but some teachers are hard to deal with as well. Teaching youngsters has to be more than just transmission of knowledge; if you LIKE your students they will feel it and thrive.

Agreed, it's not in anyone's interest for a child with developmental delays so severe that potty training by aged 5 is not possible to be in a mainstream classroom.

The teacher suffers because they are expected to be doing personal care tasks which they are neither qualified for not interested in doing.

The child in question suffers because they cannot keep up with the curriculum or expectations of their peers.

The other children suffer because a huge proportion of the adult time and money invested into their classroom is going to be taken up by the needs of that child.

The only winner in that situation is the stretched budget of the DFE not having to pay out for a special school place. And parents of children who are perfectly capable of potty training but could not be bothered.

I would have that rule - for normally developed children, obv. Children with SEN who are unable to meet this criteria (that will not be all of them by any means) would be excused - but they will need a special environment anyway. The closure of SEN provision and the inclusion in mainstream schools of children unable to cope might have saved money but it has wasted lives, of both SEN and other children.

Yup.

Some years ago, we had a situation where a child's appalling behaviour was supposedly because he was ND.

He refused to cooperate with staff. Threw tantrums. (No, they weren't ND meltdowns. Within context, these were quite different.)

This was secondary school. His parent had given him a mobile gaming consul "to allow him to regulate himself." (No, I've no idea what kind it was. Looked like a tablet held horizontally to me, but apparently a bit more complex than that.) Of course, he only wanted to game instead of dong any work and the damned thing was never on silent.

He was (and I suspect still is) a danger. One time - in another department - he picked up a tool and held it to a girl's throat. His parent was spoken to. That was it.

He'll be 19 now. I keep expecting to see his name in the papers.

I just want to say a huge thank you to all the teachers on here. I teach undergrads & I couldn't deal with the rubbish you have to put up with.

Some parents need to - well, not have become parents, clearly.

@MrsSunshine2b

Yes I see what you mean. The only time I've heard it used unfortunately is to condone or excuse awful disrespectful behaviour.

Sure, all behaviour is communication. Sometimes they are communicating that they have no respect for anyone and need to be taken down several pegs. And ND isn't an excuse to be awful to people around you either. I said what I said.

@MrsSunshine2b thank you for saying exactly what all my colleagues have been saying for the past few years.

I don't subscribe to the "Every behaviour is a communication" stuff either. Kids know that there is very little that can be done about their behaviour and behave accordingly. We actually had a parent berate a PSA outside the church after a service because she moved him for playing up and that "showed him up in front of the whole village" Well if he hadn't been a little shit, that wouldn't have happened.
Our HT was punched in the face by a pupil. Once she got back from A and E and called the parents in, they told her that she hadn't met his needs.

I don't think there is any other job that has to put up with so much shit from all sides as teaching. No amount of money is worth that.

We need to get away from the “all behaviour is communication” schtick.

Perhaps it is, but it’s more important to protect all of our pupils. If that means setting an example and inconveniencing the parents of miscreants by excluding their violent children, then so be it.

How do we solve it? That's the question.

I type from hospital waiting for an X ray after my child was pushed over in class this morning and hurt his arm.

Thank you for saying this. I think I've said upthread that I only do a teeny bit of supply these days.

At my last school, the headteacher told me to expect to be sworn at. This was before I'd even set foot in a class. Can you imagine if any other profession was told to expect that?

It's not tolerated for any other professional. If I walked into my GP surgery, got lairy, punched the dragon Receptionist lady (which, in truth, I would quite like to as she's driving me nuts right now) I'd be banned from the practise immediately. No-one would ask if Ms Dragon could have avoided it by not repeatedly losing my paperwork and then telling me my expectations of them looking after it were unreasonable. No-one would suggest that the surgery should have de-escalated the problem beforehand and put in place some therapy for me to help deal with my big feelings.

Same for a lawyers office- and it would apply if you brought your child with you and they caused chaos exactly the same as it would apply to you as an adult.

The fact that teachers are no only expected to tolerate it but also victim-blamed for it happening in the first place is absurd.

You couldn't pay me any amount of money to go back. £1m wouldn't be enough.

Couldn't agree more. How on earth one of the ideas being bandied about was to entice retired teachers back into the classroom is beyond comprehensions.

No amount of money can make being sworn at, having stuff thrown at you and an endless workload worth it.

Sorry to hear this @Peakyshelby

I think quite a few of those parents post here on MN - there is such special pleading for badly-behaved and badly raised DC every day on MN.

I’m sure your DH will thrive in a new career - teachers are amazingly multi-skilled, organised and excellent communicators. Skills highly in demand.

You couldn't pay me any amount of money to go back. £1m wouldn't be enough.

If you had that rule you'd be excluding a lot of DC with SEN who are as entitled to education as any other child.

While I dare say you're right. I've not found PTAs really easy to join or help with anything.

When my DD first started Primary I was all ready to join the PTA but there was no information about how to do so. I enquired with the school who said they'd pass on my contact details. I enquired again now and then for a while then gave up. Some years later it appeared in the school newsletter that they were trying to get new members to join the PTA and gave the date and time of a meeting. I went along and so did several others. A couple of others said they'd wanted to join earlier etc. But essentially the old guard had everything covered and there wasn't anything for most of us to do. I gave up going to the meetings as they were awkward for me as a single mum but let the PTA know I was willing to volunteer if they needed people. Tried to volunteer when it was the Christmas discos or this and that but never taken up on the offer. Finally my DD was in Y6 and I finally managed to be accepted as a volunteer for the Summer fair. I had to make arrangements for DD to be with her friends family while I volunteered. I was to be at the welcome desk. So I arrived and went to my post but there were already people there. They vaguely suggested I find the person in charge. And I just thought sod this! I'll enjoy the day with my DD! There always seemed to be so much undertone of the PTA being overworked and lacking volunteers when actually they were just a closed group not welcoming to newcomers and completely unorganised to the extent even those falling over themselves to volunteer were not taken up on the offer!

My DD is at high school now. And it seems pretty much the same story!

I remember my Finnish friend telling me the DC there were taught to brush their teeth at school. There were plans to introduce chewing gum instead of brushing teeth and the parents were up in arms!

Have you tagged the wrong poster @Grammarnut

I already told you. Go look for what I said.

Full time equivalent isn’t much use to teachers as they can’t contractually work those hours

They are not paid for the holidays. They are paid for 1265 hours and Directed Time. Teachers (and others) only think they are paid for the holidays. One look at the contract and you can see they are not.

Well, the school is not supportive of teachers if children know there are no consequences for bad behaviour. Some schools work well, e.g. Micheala, in a very poor and disadvantaged area of London. Lots of discipline, explicit teaching, high expectations and supportive parents.