To think droves of teachers will make the decision by husband made today- to leave

Yes. Nothing to do with quality of teaching. I’ve done both.
You’re paying for selective club membership basically, and the more you pay, the nicer the surroundings and smaller the classes.

So how is it that when my parents were young and in school, in the 1930s and children went to school wearing NO SHOES (yes my parents knew those children) that behaviour in schools was better?

But there were loads of kids who didn’t go to school in the 1930s. Non-attendance was an option.

Don't be so ridiculous. I was clearly talking about the cost of living crisis and lack of SEN provision in the post quoted that you replied to.

But then it wasnt me who asked such a naive question about who is to blame for those things when everyone is painfully aware it's years of an inept and self serving government.

The faux outrage is tiresome.

Agree. Was going to comment to the effect that there has been poverty in the UK since the Victorian era, yet not the widespread level of classroom violence and aggression towards teachers from either parents or children.

It’s very easy to blame poor behaviour and criminality on ‘the government’ rather than addressing the fact that as a society our attitudes and values seem to have completely changed. Much easier to scapecoat law abiding hardworking parents who want their children to have access to fee paying schools, because that will fix everything, won’t it? 🤦🏽‍♀️

So how is it that when my parents were young and in school, in the 1930s and children went to school wearing NO SHOES (yes my parents knew those children) that behaviour in schools was better?

The reasons you give existed years ago and far worse.
My father's family had NOTHING. His mother was widowed in her 30s, had 3 jobs in order to bring up 3 kids, and they were bombed out of two houses in WW2 and lost everything. As did thousands of others. There was no welfare state. Or NHS as we know it. You paid to see a GP if you could afford to.

BUT they respected education.

It's not about money.

It takes a village to raise a child as the well known saying goes.

And if that village is full of poverty, deprivation, anger and divisiveness, presided over by a government who has starved public services while stirring up hatred against the ‘other’ who they conveniently blame for all your problems while they themselves continue to profit, then what do people expect when it turns out the kids aren’t ok?

I spent two months in the democratic Republic of Congo (as well as plenty of time in other 'interesting' central and west African countries) where I witnessed incredible levels of poverty and deprivation. Yet for the most part, old and young, they somehow managed to treat each other with a modicum of respect and placed a huge premium on education as they knew just how precious a comodity it was.

The tories are clearly to blame and the people who continued to vote for them despite all the evidence that they couldn't have cared less about education.

You appear not to care either if you've missed the huge improvement in literacy that's happened since the introduction of phonics in primary schools.

Because private schools are allowed to be selective and they’re allowed to expel. State schools aren’t, because the state is legally bound to provide every child with an education.

This is largely what private school parents pay for. Not sports fields or music lessons. The main advantage is the ability to expel trouble makers - in fact (if we consider that trouble making is strongly associated with low socio economic status) the majority of the trouble makers don’t even apply.

Agree. In fact ‘blaming the Tories’ has become the default excuse for shit behaviour in general. What will their excuse be when labour get it?

is this for real? seriously?
If my child swears at teacher it's government's fault?? not my??

I think this attitude says it all. And until it's changed there is no hope

For what it’s worth teaching was once a noble profession but has since been populated by the woke and sorry but honestly if they heave their sorry arses and their woeful influence away from the next generation there are many, myself included who will rejoice

what does that even mean?

Assuming you mean all current teaching staff should stop doing what they're doing. where do you think you're going to find 400K teachers at short notice? or even long notice?

Because the alternative is - well, what is being discussed on here!

Is it though? I am not in the UK but have a lot of family there and I do not believe it is private or the level of disruption being discussed here there is surelt something in between. I doubt all state schools are like this? every country has schools in deprived areas that are more difficult to teach in and for students to progress in for a whole plethora of social economic issues but the majority of state schools function just fine and achieve good results for their students. Is the UK really that different?

So who will teach 🤔

I see poor parenting as a reflection of society too though. The CoL issues, lack of secure employment, limited social housing, poverty, proliferation of crime, illicit drug use, delays for an NHS diagnosis and treatment etc; these have all got worse under the government.

People’s lives are worse and they are worried and angry. So some people turn against others, whether that’s immigrants, teachers or NHS staff. And this poor behaviour is also reflected in worse parenting and a tendency to blame schools. I think it’s all inter-related.

And that’s in addition to the specific ways that the government has under funded its public services, including hospitals and schools and social care.

Unfortunately, this is commonplace, and it seems to be a widespread issue with SLT.

Our trust is in financial difficulties. Instead of hiring new teachers, existing ones are teaching outside their specialism area, up to GCSE. SLT are known to be bullies. At least 2 HODs are leaving in summer, with another leaving at October.

Teaching is a mess right now.

You only have to read threads on this forum to see how little control a lot of parents have of their children. Or they don’t believe it’s their job to discipline them.

Sadly that means that the decent children, the ones raised properly and who want to do well and want to learn, have their education disrupted by the rest.

At parents evening, one of my teacher friends in school was trying to explain to a parent why his daughter had been given a detention (that she didn’t bother to turn up for anyway). He laughed at her, picked up his chair and turned it so it was facing the other way. She was then sat looking at the back of this man’s head. If I told you this was a well-known celebrity, you’d be even more shocked. His child had been managed moved from several schools for behaviour.

I have never actually been hurt by a child but I have had things thrown at me. Part of the problem is that in many ways children hold all the power. We are trained in behaviour management and told that behaviour is often down to trauma or anxiety and so the child cannot be blamed. We often know that some children are living very difficult lives but that doesn't help us deal with violence and aggression. Often we are told to distract them but that is often with something that would be considered a treat like iPad time or extra play time outside. Sadly some children are learning that if they don't want to do the learning they just need to start throwing things around and hitting people and they then get to leave the classroom, 1-1 adult attention and often a treat.

I have also witnessed a child hitting an adult and screaming at the same time 'You are hurting me'. Then when being spoken to about what they did they said the adult was hitting them. Luckily I saw it as did two others. The next LSA might not be so lucky.

We absolutely need support for these children and for us. We cannot continue like this.

And then on all threads about school most posters seem to despise and/or hate parents who dare send their children to private.
Or at best they are told « it’s not worth it ».
Right. London indie school, no violence, no swearing, no theft. Amazing teachers and they seem genuinely happy to work there (v low turnover).

I'd agree with this completely after the problems we've had.

One child has even said to another parent after punching her child. "You can tell my mum. She never tells me off". And having seen his behaviour and her attitude to it, he's not wrong.

We had a spate of telling school about how he was attacking various children and recruiting others to do the same.

Mum spent years saying he wasn't SEN. Then when the issue was forced for an intervention has spent the subsequent years saying she can't control his behaviour cos he's sen. It's bullshit. He needs boundaries, not being dumped on others because she's going on holiday without him and she needs to actually parent him rather than expecting school to do everything and doubly so because he probably does have some sort of SEN needs.

He's just an inconvenience to her lifestyle. And that's ultimately the problem.

This would be a good debate question.

Can't just throw money at the problem. Need to retain current experienced teachers. Even with 30000 bursary teacher training is not attracting enough STEM trainees.

I do know teaching was very different before 2010 as I taught both before and after.

Things that need addresssing which have been worse since 2010
Austerity, taking away sure start centres, less teaching assistants, bigger class sizes, it taking 5 years for a diagnosis and therefore in some authorities appropriate help, having to memorise huge quotes to pass english gcse. Cost of living crisis as poorer families who work as having to work more hours to make ends meet; therefore having less time with their children. Teens need parents to be present too. Even in many caring working families both parents have to work full time or more to be able to pay the bills. Many families are time poor.

Being a parent and a teacher is extremely hard in term time. No time for your own family.

Quality, flexible childcare is needed.
Holiday clubs for all children including teens, not just those from families who get benefits.

It's usually the parents.

If children aren't brought up to have some respect for teachers, and parents don't deal with it at home, who else is there to blame?

Yes, schools need a good leadership team, of course. Discipline in a school comes from the top .

However, there are also some people who are simply not cut out for teaching. (I say this as a former teacher.)

We all knew the colleagues who struggled and couldn't manage the class. They had no 'presence' and the students knew it and played up. In one of my teaching jobs, at least 3 new teachers left within a year because they couldn't control the classes (and this was in an independent school.)

If Labour want to improve education they need to tackle this, rather than just take down the good schools. Once they have knobbled the independents they will destroy the grammars, then the naice comps in leafy suburbs until only the hellish distopian hell schools are left and then everyone will be equal. Hoorah!

Lol so true!

Well yes precisely. You do not get this level of disruption in private schools.

Which is why so many people are crippling themselves to send their kids. Because the alternative is - well, what is being discussed on here!