To think droves of teachers will make the decision by husband made today- to leave

My DH works internationally with French speakers. Do you think he should give it up because I am not fluent in French?
Of all the weird posts on this thread, I've not seen anything like this before - you think DH is not a "high calibre" teacher because of his partner's grammar (which is fine for a mumsnet post anyway)?

What is SLT?

Nobody with passes at GCSE, A Level and a 2:2 should be teaching secondary level, in my opinion

I assume you want a 2:1 as a minimum? Because the difference tween 2:2 and 2:1 is 1%? In all seriousness, what difference does it make?

sadly many of the more experienced teachers with 'presence' left as the government cuts kicked in alongside the widespread academisation of schools. SLTs don't care about the staff or the students, it's about running a business.
there's no provision for SEN, behavioural issues etc, the money isn't being spent on TAs, employing NQTs to save money who are taught teaching is crowd control.
The quality of teacher training is poor, the SEN knowledge is limited, the them and us attitude towards families is obvious, irl but also reading here.

instead of one to one or extra support the disruptive students are given punitive treatment and begin to play up to the label teachers give them.
all the comments here about 'little jonny' or 'the little darlings' show how little respect these people have for children and families who might need more support.
All of the societal problems including parents at the end of their rope and teachers leaving in droves can be directly attributed to government cuts over the last fifteen years including removal of Surestart centres, Connexions support in schools and NHS cuts resulting in ridiculously long waiting lists for diagnoses.

Have you considered there’s a huge portion of society who aren’t sycophants for the conservatives but don’t vote at all because what’s the point for them. Made worse because Starmer is just Tory lite.

Phonics was taught under the Literacy strategy and Letters and Sounds was freely available from 2007-both under Labour.

@Supersoakers If you're going to copy and paste, can you link to the actual sources please? Just so that bias, if any or not, is clear.

It's impossible to know where the above is from, where you own words stop and direct quotes start. You've also copied and pasted the same sentences twice.

The Labour government ended 14 years ago.
Phonics have since been implemented.

@LoopyPooly oh dear. I think you yourself have missed the point entirely . You is perfectly sufficient.

I suggest as many of you as possible send a link to this thread to [email protected] he is (hopefully) the next minister for schools. You never know he might respond

The benefit cap is lifted if you can get any sickness claimed for.

@Giantpaw I would say that’s the exception rather than the rule.

It also used to be that only those who achieved highly could even go to university in the first place. Now, pretty much everyone and anyone can go, regardless of academic record.

all of this

My own Dad left school at 14, but that is hardly the same as attendance at school being optional as a pp claimed.

He left because the school was in lockdown (polio) and he decided he might as well be working as sitting at home.

@RosesAndHellebores Not an own goal at all, two entirely separate issues in education - albeit with some cross overs.

One issue is behaviour and failure of SLT to do much (in fairness they have their hands tied a lot of the time). I’m glad your DD is getting on well, but as you can see from this thread, many do not.

The second separate, but linked, issue is why would someone who is a high achiever academically want or need to go into teaching? For staters it is badly paid and has a litany of issues (including behaviour). The government ‘solved’ this by making the entry requirements to become a teacher much lower, rather than actually tackling the reasons why those who have an academically gifted record don’t want to teach.

Nobody with passes at GCSE, A Level and a 2:2 should be teaching secondary level, in my opinion.

Agree to some extent - but given that the grads with 3-4 A’s at A Level and 2;1s/1sts can walk into STEM jobs paying £60-80K, and are usually graduating with £50k plus of student debt, it’s no wonder that the brighter graduates aren’t attracted into the profession.

Just as there is no money for NHS staff, there is none for these either. We have a broken welfare state system where people want everything provided for free and at the best quality, but there is no money in the pot. And just for balance, the current conservative govt (or rather Cons/Lib government for the first 5 years) inherited a deficit so large that there was nothing to fund any of the necessary and recommended changes in education - Gordon Brown spent spent spent, but made no attempts to find the funds to pay for it. The Labour Chief Secretary for the Treasury, Liam Byrne, left a note on his desk for the new Con/Lib offcier stating : ‘I am afraid there is no money’.

Easy to blame the Tories for the current state of affairs, when they were well and truly shafted by Labour - and then add in covid, Ukraine and everything that has contributed to fuel price rises and the CoL.

We are where we are because of decades of mismanagement by governments of all colours.

@LoopyPooly the best head teacher my DH ever worked with had a 2:2 degree. He got amazing results from his classes, the best in the area by miles and the kids and staff all respected him.

And generally these children are happy and proud to be able to attend school 🥰

@LoopyPooly I think if you yourself live in a glass house, you should refrain from throwing stones. Whilst I agree with you, (rather than yourself), you have scored an own goal there.

TBF my dd is teaching in a challenging school and aged 26 is absolutely thriving and managing 15/16 year old six footers with all sorts of problems really well. They seem to respect my dot of a daughter and she has had some lovely cards of thanks from parents who clearly struggle with the chaos in their lives.

DD is not struggling with prep, marking or assessments. Some the children's circumstances sadden her but she is finding the children and their parents manageable, despite having had to break up fights. What she finds more challenging is the calibre of the SLT and flakiness of some other staff.

I will also say - and I know some won’t like this and it will be controversial - but the quality of teachers has definitely slipped. Teaching used to be a respected profession which attracted intelligent and academically successful individuals.

I have known many teachers in recent years who have scraped passes at GCSE / A Level, then achieved 2:2 degrees who go on to teach in secondary schools. How can you possibly teach children how to get those higher grades (7, 8 and 9s) if you yourself performed poorly. This is unacceptable, but unfortunately teaching isn’t attracting high achieving individuals for all the reasons mentioned on this thread.

Do you now know the Rose report was led by labour and ignored by the conservatives? That phonics was implemented by labour?

The Government will not go ahead with plans for the new primary curriculum, drawn up under Labour, following Sir Jim Rose's review.
The curriculum, was due to be introduced in schools from September 2011, but the reforms of the curriculum did not make it through the passing of the Children, Schools and Families Bill before the election, because it was opposed by the Tories (News, 15 April).
The new curriculum, was due to be introduced in schools from September 2011 but the reforms of the curriculum did not make it through the passing of the Children, Schools and Families Bill before the election, because it was opposed by the Tories (News, 15 April).

On Monday schools minister Nick Gibb said, ‘A move away from teaching traditional subjects like history and geography could have led to an unacceptable erosion of standards in our primary schools.

‘Instead, teachers need a curriculum which helps them ensure that every child has a firm grasp of the basics and a good grounding in general knowledge, free from unnecessary prescription and bureaucracy.
‘It is vital that we return our curriculum to its intended purpose – a minimum national entitlement organised around subject disciplines.’

@MaryMaryVeryContrary I’ve worked and lived in two affluent areas, both different Home Counties / villages / commuter areas and considered very middle class and expensive.

Both local secondary schools have some real issues with behaviour. Anyone with real wealth educates their children privately. In both areas I have lived, there are easily half a dozen private schools compared to one or two large state schools. This means that the state school attracts children from the less affluent areas. Although I do concede that many of these children are a result of their upbringing and not at fault, these are the few ‘bad’ kids that ruin it for the rest. Swearing, attitude, anti-social behaviour, just generally being vile. One or two terrible children in the classroom can ruin it for everyone else, as others have mentioned there are no real sanctions and it’s almost impossible to exclude a child.

I have been sworn at, called names, had teenage boys behaviour violently around me, for example, one aggressively smashed a laptop to pieces as I was attempting to help him. These are schools in very ‘posh’ areas!

So we can imagine the types of homes these children come from can't we?
Children learn their vocabulary from what is spoken at home.

Sadly, we now live in a society where fewer people respect authority. We see it on our streets, with knife crime, muggings, phone theft, where people blatantly shop lift, in sport where footballers challenge referees in ways they never did, and yes, in schools and in medical settings. Everywhere.

Teaching used to be a respected profession. I've seen a slow decline and it's not all outside teacher's control. I've noticed a decline (and you may think this is petty) in how teachers dress for work (mainly in primary schools.) They don't look professional, in clothes that are far too casual, not suitable for a professional role. Children notice this.

I also think that - as has been the case for decades- that many graduates drift into teaching because they don't know what else to do. They aren't cut out for it and they realise that fast. Even going back to my old school days we all knew the teachers we could mess around with, who just didn't have 'it' to control a class (and this was a grammar school.)

And the worst thing is that many heads are just downright useless. I've seen it where I've taught and without a strong head, the school sinks.

Exactly. Why are those in charge so obsessed with creating new things instead of mending broken systems. There are vast numbers of experienced teachers who would return to the job or not leave it if they had support over pupil behaviour, if they could focus on teaching not tickboxing, if our society promoted and fostered respect for teachers and proper discipline in schools (I don't mean physical.)

Just another 'me too' - Left teaching after 24 years because of unrealistic workload, pressure from SLT being leaned on by Ofsted etc. It took me a breakdown and, once recovered, the offer of a job unrelated to the State Education system to get me out. The pupils, even in the most deprived inner-city schools, were the good part of the job and I miss them.

You still think phonics was introduced by the Tories? I’m amazing they didn’t scrap it in favour of rote learning.