To think droves of teachers will make the decision by husband made today- to leave

But you wouldn’t go to special school for struggling while wearing a jumper.

So many kids need some kind of adjustment now they’d have to do away with the rules altogether.

I’m really worried about our future workforce and will be encouraging my kids to emigrate because it will be chaos, if there is one at all. Nobody seems to be able to just do anything these days.

That poster is just being goady. She has multiple threads explaining that she doesn't believe in ND or EHCPs. She thinks ND children should be left to sink. Her solutions usually involve violence. She has no experience of working in schools, or experience of schools as a parent as her eldest child is 4.

Because there aren't SEN school places and the DC becomes traumatised at school through the way they are treated and things just get worse and worse.

The fact is some schools are able to deal with DC with additional needs and some do treat the DC with respect - i.e can take their jumper off if need be. Yes, the situation is complex. But there is plenty that many of these schools could be doing.

I don't believe there is any excuse for the SEN department to formulate a plan only for the head teacher to over ride it and humiliate the DC. Just as one example.

My DH is Kenyan. He told me how damn lucky he was not just to go to school, but to a pretty good school, for which his father had to work endlessly in low paid jobs to be able to afford.
DH didn’t come from money, neither did his peers. Behaviour in school was exemplary, because if you misbehaved you’d get battered by the teachers and then battered some more at home.

DH isn’t even 30 yet. He’s also very well educated, in a well paying career, has a very close and loving relationship with his parents, and suffers no trauma from school days.

This wouldn’t fly in the UK and yet we’re the ones with the feral children.

Not anymore. Teach First is now also accepting anyone who applies in an effort to meet targets and claim government bonuses.
We had a Teach First trainee who was so totally obviously unsuited to teaching that they should never have been accepted onto the course. They lasted a couple of weeks.

But - with the greatest of respect - we have teachers saying a quarter to half their class have sensory issues, some kind of adjustment needed that means they can’t follow basic requirements, or some kind of specialist treatment. It’s not remotely enforceable and why is this level of need suddenly so high?

So as an example a DC with autism - no reasonable adjustments for uniform, sensory issues, time out etc. Plans agreed and then when the DC tries to follow the plan being humiliated by the headteacher. A DC being told they can't be a comfortable temperature - could go on. DC who is polite, kind, friendly, does their best, gets to the point that they snap and answer back and all hell breaks loose! I see it time and time again. These schools need to sort themselves out.

One of the better routes into teaching is Teach First. The grads are put in tough schools and it's sink or swim. It's a prep for leadership roles

We don’t need loads of leadership roles-we need good classroom teachers who will stay.

What we don’t need is

Another workload survey (with the only outcome being, they will repeat it in a couple of years to see if it’s gone up or down).

Another recruitment bright idea where the government spends a fortune on adverts telling us that ‘great teachers can earn £60k’, with a troops to teaching/mums to teaching/pensioners to teaching type theme of chucking bursaries at people so they stay for a year then leave.

What we do need…

The government to find out and understand why teachers are leaving and what would it take them to keep them. it’s only ever about recruitment. Solve retention and you might get somewhere.

My dd is getting verbally bullied at school but won't tell me who is doing it as she said she has seen them get told off for their behaviour to others and they just get worse. I spoke with her teacher and said while I can't tell you names by what my dd says I'm sure you know who's doing this. Teacher was very nice but essentially told me she can't do anything about it, they can't supervise the cloakrooms and playgrounds enough to stop it and if the consequences they give don't change the behaviour they can only continue to give those same consequences. She said she would speak to the whole class again about being kind.

My dd is new to this school but classmates tell her they have had the teacher leave mid year every single year so far. Half the time they have substitute teachers or the pe teacher or TA teaching them. I've had to get a tutor as my dd learns nothing at school. She comes home in tears and is constantly either suffering physical symptoms of anxiety or trying to fake to get out of going. She's constantly sat next to disruptive kids as she's so quiet and meek.

I hate what the government has done to our education system. It's hell in those schools for children and staff. I work in early years. Over 20 years I've worked and known we lay the foundations for children's future outcomes. There was so much support and targeted interventions available when I started but I've watched it all get cut and ratios increase. Early help is hard to get and these children could have been helped but now are entering school with significant delays or undiagnosed send or unsupported troubled home life. No one has any time or funding to help so the services are fighting fires and only helping the kids about to be removed or who's parents complain the most or the ones attempting suicide etc etc.

Of course a lot of it is shitty parents that can't be denied but I won't accept it's all on the parents. But of course when the shitty parents wont accept the little darling did actually do as they are being told and was witnessed by staff what can we do? Teachers leave. And the 'good' kids just suffer more. While those in power have the money to send their kids to schools that are able to be selective and kick the challenging children out. I'd say I have no words but clearly I do because I always have a rant on threads like this lol

Can you give examples of them being ‘treated like shit’? And no adjustments? For what?

Unfortunately, I've seen how dire the secondaries around here have become. They treat the DC like shit and then wonder why the DC behave in the way that has been modelled to them. DC with additional needs are not given reasonable adjustments and hugely struggle. This isn't individual teachers fault - it's SLT. My only advice is for him to get a job in a decent school but there aren't that many around unfortunately.

Would replacing Ofsted with a system of peer review be a start?

My son had no great interest in English in any form until he got a teacher who had trained later in life from being a BT engineer.

Yes it can be a good career change for some people but I'm sure there are just as many who didn't realise the full horror of modern day teaching until they started it.

Why on earth should anybody put up with the continual abuse from pupils and parents - both verbal and physical? Why are some places allowed to put up signs saying that they have a zero tolerance policy to abuse of their staff, yet schools can't?

Personally I feel that there needs to be a complete overhaul of the system and people start addressing the reasons why teachers are leaving in droves.

Even at A level, if you have a degree you're equipped.

That's not my experience. I'm retired now, but the young teachers in my department had degrees but did not have the subject knowledge to teach at senior level. Neither did they show interest in enhancing or even maintaining the subject knowledge they had. Their spoken and written English was in some cases appalling.

Of course you also need other skills too, but subject knowledge should be a basic requirement and it isn't.

This is only my experience, not a generalisation.

Perhaps with a change of structure and recruitment focus 🧐

With conditions as appalling as they are, where do Labour think they're going to find 6000 people willing to train as teachers. They might offer enticements but 80% of them will probably quit within a few years.

Well quite. It’s a bit like sending men to the Western Front. Without changing the conditions or the tactics, what makes them think the next 6000 teachers will fare any differently from the previous ones?

Perhaps stop looking at new grads. Teaching is a great second career for older people.

The current focus is on young teachers to the exclusion of older more experienced people.

Best maths teacher ever - outstanding in every sense of the word was a former civil engineer at DD’s school. He had retrained and career changed to fit his family needs.

His groups outperformed the top sets and he had the complete respect of all his students.

With conditions as appalling as they are, where do Labour think they're going to find 6000 people willing to train as teachers. They might offer enticements but 80% of them will probably quit within a few years.

I don't know about entry qualifications for a teaching degree in England but when my daughter was considering teaching (Scotland) the grades needed for teaching were not as high as many other degrees.
Consequently we've had NQTs who can't use correct spelling and grammar and struggle with maths beyond P5

A few years ago, I wanted to be an English teacher, but I’d rather join a bomb disposal squad than do Teach First!

I’d still like to teach TEFL or ESOL to adults (same subject, but different student demographics), but I imagine such vacancies are few and far between in the UK, despite being poorly paid.

Simple facts:
The DC's primary was OK. Top school but most the dc were tutored. The teaching of literacy and numeracy was not great and the Head could not construct grammatically correct sentences. It was a nice environment though with like minded parents who wanted the best for their DC.

DS was alpha and sporty and v v bright. He needed exercising like a labradorite and that wasn't available at a state primary. We moved him at 8.

DD was much quieter and it suited until 11 when she luckily got a place at a hill grail state cofe school. When we switched not one school in our Borough offered: a classical language, choice of MFL or specialist subject discipline based science (physics, chemistry, biology). The offer was not a comprehensive offer it was closer to secondary modern.

DD did two years at a state secondary with an excellent reputation. We moved her due to behaviour issues and some very poor teaching at a school where staff left in droves under new leadership.

The DC are 26 and 29 now. One went to Oxford, one to Cambridge. They are both teaching: one in secondary, one as a Lecturer post PhD. None of their contemporaries who remained in the state system went to Oxbridge. Some were cleverer than my DC. All had motivated, very nice and caring parents.

That's assuming every single state school is like the one described in the op. Thankfully that's not the case.

One of the better routes into teaching is Teach First. The grads are put in tough schools and it's sink or swim. It's a prep for leadership roles. Many however do Teach First and use it on their CV as a passport to other careers because it shows they have the capacity to cope.

I will also say - and I know some won’t like this and it will be controversial - but the quality of teachers has definitely slipped.

This isn’t remotely controversial and is in fact well documented.

The government is openly telling teacher training providers to accept anyone onto the course, where they are then passed. Headteachers are openly saying that they have to hire people they would not want to hire because the alternative is no one.

And it’s not just STEM subjects, it’s all staff. Beggars can’t be choosers.

you see it on MN all the time.

OP: My DD12 just told me to 'fuck off' because I asked her to put away her clothes. Should I discipline her?
PP: OMG!!! The poor little lamb. She's probably had a rough day at school/friendship issues/period pains...you have to cut her some slack and stop being such a boring, overharsh disciplinarian!!!!
OP: oh ok.....

Total fabrication but you get my meaning...

OP, I hope your DH is able to come back from the last 6 years and finds a job he enjoys.

I don't agree with non-specialists teaching some subjects.

But what I do disagree with is that you have to be a high-flyer to teach your subject.

The fact is that understanding your subject (to the level or just beyond what your students are learning) is only one small part of teaching.

Equally important is charisma, enthusiasm and being able to perform in front of a class and keep them with you.

IME of schools, many of the staff who left and didn't cope with - on paper- very well qualified. What they lacked was the ability to control a class and keep the students with them in a lesson.

Unless you're teaching in higher ed, a degree of any class is enough for most teaching roles. Even at A level, if you have a degree you're equipped. And in some subjects (like English Lit) the curriculum changes annually so you're always learning.