AIBU to think that if WFH employees aren’t getting their work done, the problem is with their management?

You could do those things. You could turn up to meetings and reply to colleagues but still be doing not very much the rest of the time. I’m thinking of roles like relationship management where meeting notes could take one or three hours. If they took you an hour that’s two hours freed for doing nothing if you were so inclined.

I WFH full time. It is without doubt the best thing that has ever happened for me. I work a lot longer hours than necessary, give it my all and go above and beyond for my employer. I am so, so grateful and would never take advantage or take this privilege for granted. I love my employer for it and they have my total loyalty.

I am never going back to the office and all the petty politics around lights on or off, windows open or shut, heating on or off and all the other ridiculous issues people get upset about.
I learnt something a long time ago just be concerned with your own situation at work and not what other people think or do.

As long as you are happy with your work situation don't worry about how other people are managed or if they take the p*. The best thing about working from home is you don't have to see any of that and personally I am much happier for it.

Well no one is going to admit to being a 'mouse jiggler ' are they?

I would love a job though in which my work was done, alas I don't. One job out, two more in is more my experience.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjll01220yeo

100% agree.

I WFH, manage a global team who mainly WFH and managed from NA by someone who WFH.

It's viewed as a part of the package, people need to understand that this gives them work life balance which we promote, but in return you don't take the piss.

And yes, you can totally clock it if someone is taking the piss.

I could probably ghost half my job for at least a year, maybe two - and do a half arsed version of the other half for 6 months before it caught up with me. I might get caught - but it’d be pretty safe to try.

Now I’d be killing my career and unlikely to come back from that. Like literally years later that low productivity would be visible and questioned. But at the time - I could hide it.

There’s a lot of jobs where team work also obscures slacking or poor performance. Different management strategies are needed for these sorts of roles. We’d need to have a lot more managers around if we wanted to have close oversight on outputs. For our industry it mostly works to trust people - problem is that it takes a long time to deal with problems cause we aren’t so proactive in monitoring.

Agreed.

And that includes making sure that employees are working and in particular have arrangements for childcare during working hours.

If someone is going into an office there's no need to ask about who is looking after the children, because obviously the person in the office isn't doing it.

But some people do abuse the ability to work from home and think it means no childcare, you see it all the time on here. AIBU to think I can work full time from home whilst looking after me toddler.

But managers need to management and tackle poor performance if individuals aren't delivering, irrespective of where they work

I agree. I WFH much of the time and thrive on the trust and flexibility. I might take a long lunch to have a run and nip to the shops, but then I'll catch up in the evening or do some work on a Saturday. It's lovely to be trusted and treated like an adult.

I agree. Office work should be judged on efficiency and completing the tasks you are given rather than on hours with your bum on a seat at arbitrary times.

I also dislike the sneering about WFH. I work thanks very much, the people I work for and with would soon let me know if my output slowed down or they could not get hold of me.

In my job, productivity isn’t easy to asses from month to month, but over a period of years it becomes more obvious. My own productivity has increased significantly since 2020 because I get more done when I work from home. There are fewer distractions, and I also work during the time I would otherwise be commuting. I try to WFH two days per week. Management supports this for all staff because they recognise that flexibility produces better results. But there are procedures for managing underperforming staff.

Theres a ‘London weighting’ for extra expense of working in the capital but I often think there should be a ‘can’t work from home weighting’.
Obviously this would apply to workers such as nurses, doctors, maintenance workers, shop staff, delivery drivers, teachers, hospitality workers etc.
Self employed could be given an extra tax allowance.
These workers mostly can’t take ‘time out’ to collect a parcel or pick kids up from school or answer the door bell.

Why would anyone work a full day if they didn't have to?

Lots of jobs don't need eight hours sat at a desk - if someone can get the work done in six, what's the issue?

>It's not "piss taking" (as I read on another thread) to fit your job around your personal life as long as it doesn't impact on the client.

@fieldsofbutterflies personally I think it’s fine to impact the client so long as you don’t kill your business! If you’re happy to lose a client who isn’t happy with your way of working all good. So long as you’re honest upfront (these are our business hours, or I won’t be able to get that to you until Wednesday - do you still want to book?)

I think if the manager is happy with the level of productivity from a homeworker, why does anyone else care what they get up to?

I find it weird how wound up people get about complete strangers who aren't even their colleagues WFH.

It's sort of a spiteful 'if I can't do it why should you' attitude.

I hybrid work and I work hard because my kind of job requires it and it would soon be obvious if I was sat watching netflix all day.

I don't give a shit if someone else has the kind of job where they can fully WFH and have time to watch netflix. As long as they're not working for me who cares? I know someone in sales with a job like that. Her employees don't give a shit what she does with her day as long as she hits her target. Why should I care she gets more time to do her own thing in the day than I do?

Surely most jobs require some sort of visible output… what job wouldn’t need any results or visible work done, even if just replying to colleagues, turning up to meetings etc?

Controlling what's going on in someone's home is not good management. And should never be attempted.

That's not effective management

Slackers will slack wherever they work. I WFH, have done since 2017. My work gets done, I work flexible hours and probably more than I would in an office.

I think there is some bitterness from those that can't work from home, some of it is understandable. E.g., in my organisation, some people have to be on site. They get irritated as they see the people who work from home having an easier ride. I can pop out for an appointment, it doesn't matter if my car is in for it's MOT but they have to take leave so they feel they're getting a shitty deal.

There are downsides to working from home too, of course. I feel obligated to log on outside of working hours sometimes, I wouldn't if I was office based.

My manager runs a tight ship, she's also very flexible. If our work wasn't being done to a high standard then we'd be pulled up on it. I used to manage staff, I found out quickly that I'm not skilled at managing people! I'd struggle to manage a team working from home, just like I would a team in the office.

Completely agree.

WFH has been brilliant for my workplace. We have no problems with recruitment, retention, or productivity.

We are completely flexible and treat people as adults and in return they behave like adults.

Poor performance needs to be dealt with whether it's virtual or in-person. And if it's not dealt with then you have a poor performing manager as well as a poor performing colleague.

We actually have far fewer HR problems now than we did before the pandemic.

I do find the usual negative lines trotted out and invariably said by people who don't work, who work in person and want to validate their own experience or those who are just ultra traditional.

Whilst this is true - I have seen people set themselves up to fail in a wfh setup. Caring for kids is a big one (not saying this is OP!). It’s very different having your 11/12 year olds playing in the backyard while you’re working for a couple hours, than having your 3 year old at home while you work all day (or even just a couple hours).

Other people in the home is another factor - a coffee with colleagues is part social part productive work for me. Actually a lot of our mentoring and training happens through these informal chats. A similar break with family is always social (cause we can’t talk work). There’s also issues with how responsive some people are in an online environment. In the office I can see your desk - I know where you are, and have clues to when you’re free for interaction. I can interrupt your social chat with a work enquiry etc. When you’re out of sight, it’s much harder - so if you choose flexibility that means you aren’t overlapping with key times with your colleagues (either wfh or in-person) that’sa big issue.

The lack of a work environment can also make distractions harder to resist for some people.

WFH can be really effective for some people in some roles, hybrid has even more going for it. But I don’t think it’s as simple as saying well they’d waste time in the office too. Because that’s but necessarily the case.

Yeah I agree actually. I've changed teams recently. My last manager left us to pretty much get on with it - work/productivity was never checked. I actually found the job fairly easy and realised I could absolutely hammer out my work on my two office days and take it easier when wfh. It was a job where I had a monthly workload, which I always completed easily. I can see how not being managed could make you take advantage of it and let things slide. She'd never of known if it wasn't completed as you dealt directly with the clients and finance department yourself regarding issues that arose.

My new role isn't the same, in that it's not a monthly workload. Its a constant stream of work coming in daily with issues to resolve and a large workload. The managers are delegating and assigning tasks, errors are picked up on as there are reports created that flags it to them. Complex cases we need to discuss with Managers on how to resolve. Productivity is tracked through software we use and there is weekly meetings etc. You really couldn't get away with messing around whilst working from home, tidying the house, taking it easy etc.

Its the same people that are slackers at work are slackers at home and vice-versa, simples

Yep

I WFH. I'm the only person in my organisation who does. I'm trusted to get my job done because I worked from the office for 2 years beforehand and they know how hard I work.

Yes I nip out for half an hour sometimes - I need fresh air, or collect a parcel or get something from the shop. But I don't take the piss because I know I'm onto a good thing!

No, you only need to go onto a few R89 money diaries to see how much millenials/Gen Z toss it off at home and happily keep a diary about it

I work longer hours at home. On the days I commute I only get there just before our start time whereas at home I am usually checking emails well before that while I have breakfast, and on office days I leave as close to 6 as I can so I get home at a decent time for dinner, but if I am WFH I can do an extra hour and still have dinner ready for 7.30.

Totally agree with you.

People on here get really bent out of shape whenever you say you have flexible working, or don't have to be sat at your desk from 9am-5pm everyday. It's odd and not an attitude I see in real life.

I don't work an office job but do work for myself and flex my hours as needed. I prefer to work longer days during the week and have Fridays as a half day where possible - and it is 90% of the time. It's not "piss taking" (as I read on another thread) to fit your job around your personal life as long as it doesn't impact on the client.

I can set my own hours and often refuse jobs that mean working late - one of the perks of being self-employed

Managers cant control whats going on in someone's home. Its not for me to deal with my team's housework or childcare demands. I manage the work they are given and how well it is done.