AIBU to think that if WFH employees aren’t getting their work done, the problem is with their management?

I WFH some of the time but if the DCs are home it's not as productive. But sometimes I have to because of childcare (late primary/early secondary/SEN so no childcare but not completely independent).

Interested hope they’d get away with not working at a band 8? I’m a 7 and wfh one day a week but there’s so much scrutiny on productivity. B8s spend most their time on teams meetings so my boss tries to come in but sits with her headset on so it’s pointless. Are your b8s not showing up to meetings? Or is this just your jealous perception?

I work in the NHS where there is a very clear divide between the people who work hard and the people who are unbelievably lazy. The latter are all working from home and agree management need to deal with it as they are all in posts that are paid at band 8 or higher

I’d get the public sector crowd back in the office personally and leave the private sector to work as they please

I honestly think most of the anti working from home rhetoric comes from jealousy.

As long as you’re in a job where remote working is possible it’s not inherently easier to slack off. As numerous people have pointed out people who slack off will find as many ways to do so in the workplace as they do from home. I find it far easier to from home than the office. Far fewer distractions.

A lot of this is that these are mainly male driven businesses. For decades people were forced to come in even though it was burdensome in terms of school pickups etc. But women had to have their bums on seats in offices just so as not to be seen as allowed certain advantages over men.

When I started at my company I had a three year old and I negotiated a slightly earlier leaving time to pick my daughter up from nursery, but that I would log on at home and do more work later. In my first review I was told the young blokes in the office resented this. Even though I was working most evenings when they were in the pub.

COVID completely changed the rules of engagement and the “bums on seats” requirement was shown to be nonsense. Women are perfectly capable of doing more than a full day of work and also picking their kids up.

The “all back to the office” drive is the last trumpet of the dinosaurs as they desperately try to reset the world to one defined by men’s needs and their worldview. But the ship has sailed. Full time mandated office work is a thing of the past. People just need to stop whining about it.

Yes. Our team wfh one day a week each. Our manager trusts us and is extremely flexible so we all go above and beyond to repay that trust and respect by working our arses off. I don't think any one of us would slack off when wfh and feel comfortable about it knowing that our manager is so accommodating and understanding. I dread her saying she's retiring. She's 62 now so it's on the horizon.

Why should in-person work get a special tax break?

Do people think that when they're in an office, they work for every moment of the day? A slacker is a slacker wherever they are.

I have a few thoughts on people who think everyone should be in the office 100% of the time. Firstly they are the sort of people who slack off themselves and need the structure of the office so assume everyone else is like that. Secondly some of them need their ego stroked by having their headcounts in front of them so everyone else can see the power they hold and what a hood job they are doing.

I have noticed that those that slack do so in the office just as much more coffee breaks, chatting excessively to colleagues, always on their phones. It makes no difference if they are at home or not. Its about managing the people that need it and letting everyone else get on with it.

WFH is a great thing and not to be begrudged - I say that as someone who cannot WFH. I have a long commute, made longer by ridiculous traffic. I guess that a large proportion of the cars I see on my journey are people commuting to their office jobs. If they were all WFH, I could cut down my journey time by a significant amount. (At the weekend it's a 55 minute drive. During the week it can be as long as 95 minutes!!!)

WFH is better for the planet and better for commuters!!

I agree. There are definitely members of my team who are not getting work done, I know this because it then gets redivided up and shared out again amongst everyone.
I raised this with my manager in my 1:1 and just said I was not going to do it anymore because I am managing my workload efficiently and didn’t feel like gaining other work because of it was very fair - she said she knew but didn’t know what to do about it!
She needs to be raising conversations with those that aren’t doing it and working out why and asking how she can support them - instead she just send it all back out to everyone else to pick up!

Absolutely. Where I worked a couple of years ago we needed to go into the office for admin cover of things like taking in post etc. We worked it out between us, no set rota, were flexible everything was fine. Found out that some offices just were not bothering so post wasn't being delivered or there was no one there to send something urgent, visitors couldn't get in. We were very annoyed that our ability to wfh on some days would be taken away as managers in other offices were just crap at their jobs.

When I wfh I work like I would in the office (except I eat at my desk as I do some chores on my lunch break!). If my productivity dropped or I was never available then my manager will raise it with me.

I mostly agree. A good manager should have awareness of their employee’s to-do lists and schedules, even if this is only a loose awareness. If someone is sitting there with little to do for days on end they shouldn’t be unaware of that.

Such a shame. I don't have a job that could be wfh, yet I totally agree that done well it's better. It's also a win for the employer as they don't have to pay for as much office space, saving money in many ways.

Yes - although I work fully remotely, I think I'd quite like 4 days at home, 1 day in the office. But my employer is in London and I'm not, so that isn't going to happen 😄. I also like the alternative idea - how can we work differently to replicate the benefits of physically being at work?

Probably because the vast majority of jobs have room for "slacking off" without it having any noticeable impact on productivity.

The only issue is that if your job requires you to be sat in an office or stood in a shop, you don't have the opportunity to take a nap/do laundry/walk the dog like you do when you're working at home or set your own hours.

I'm a dog walker and have time in my schedule most days to nip home and do laundry, or grab a coffee, or feed the cats. Yes, I have to fit those breaks around my clients but it's more than doable 90% of the time.

I'm sure they exist, but I've personally never worked somewhere where I was required to be "on and present" the entire time. When I was a retail manager I always encouraged staff to take a break when they could - an extended lunch break occasionally, or to go home on quiet days if they wanted to (all paid). They could all go and make a coffee if they wanted or sit for ten minutes to have a biscuit as long as they were ready to go if it got busy.

Workers have their own responsibility but managers are well paid to motivate and manage their staff and adhere to disciplinary procedures and performance reviews.. If they aren't doing that then they shouldn't be in a job. Some staff will always push buttons to do the minimum they can get away with.

@RubyOrca your work sounds interesting - is it maybe a bit niche or unusual? It must be hard to manage people in your industry if it takes that long to notice they’re not doing much.

@AuntieJoyce true - but if the work has been done in one hour rather than three does it matter, as long as it’s done? Some people are faster than others.

I agree, I hear stories about people working from home and massively slacking and my immediate thought is why aren't their bosses noticing this and addressing it?

The fault lies with the workers AND the management. I'm sure we have all noticed the huge decline in many areas that we have to deal with, such as contacting public services, insurance, tax, etc etc, and surely a significant part is because of 'W'FH. We've all heard people saying how great it is to WFH as they can take the kids to school, take the dog for a walk, do their household chores, redecorate, go on holiday etc all while 'working'. There are always those who'll take the piss, and yes management should be on top of this, but that's another issue - managers who are crap at their jobs.

I totally agree.

I find 5 days at home isolating and a bit claustrophobic and 5 days in the office tiring. A mix is good.

In my role there's huge value in office days. Spontaneous conversations, getting up and out the house, face to face contact. Hybrid works best for us.

Yes it's a management issue, it's what managers are paid to do: manage their staff.

We have performance targets so if you're working at home or the office then you've got to get your targets. Things like time management are up to managers to police as well and use disciplinary procedures. Some managers might be more lenient as long as the work is getting done properly.

I tend to do more at home because I work longer due to no commute time.

The 2 days a week I go in the office I get so much less work done. Everyone talking to me, just inane chatter and the distractions in a busy office. I get hardly anything done. I now book nearly all my meetings on those 2 days and pile up the work for the 3 days at home where I can concentrate.