Recurring argument

Reading through your comments I’m trying to understand why you could possibly think you are being unreasonable and have come to the conclusion that you must have a really really low opinion of yourself. You’ve referred to yourself as ‘awful’ and ‘sounding like a gold digger’ but what you’ve shared actually say the opposite.

You have four children you are taking sole care of and are prioritising their needs, as a parent should.

Your husband is:

• an alcoholic
• has used drugs in the family home (chances are this wasn’t the first time)
• likely has used prostitutes (unlikely that the one time he got caught was the first time he’d messaged one)
• begrudges money being spent on his children’s birthdays
• is upset money is being spent on making your family home livable
• is taking no action to tackle his alcoholism/depression
• holds you responsible for everything wrong in his life
• Thinks he should take priority over your shared children
• does nothing to physically or emotionally support or care for your shared children
• claims he puts you first when actually he puts himself above everyone else
• spends money on alcohol but complains it’s your fault he can’t save up to buy a car (that he doesn’t really need)
• resents you for having saved up for and spent money on something less expensive than a car two years ago
• isnt the worst dad in the world

Have I got that right?

You need to see this man for who he is, you are clearly blinded by some sense of love/loyalty/obligation to him that is stopping you from looking at this situation objectively. You have allowed yourself to be so beaten down by him and are perpetually trying to ‘fix’ him by telling him that he’s right, that you are awful, money hungry, selfish and wrong. You are none of those things and you need to realise that he is adding nothing positive to your life, he is sucking the life out of you. If not for yourself, do it for your children, show them that you are strong and capable, that they really are your priority. Stop trying to save him, nothing you do will ever be enough for him, he needs to help himself. Stop modelling such a toxic relationship to your children, be the mother they need by standing up for yourself and refusing to be this mans verbal punching bag.

Not being the worst dad is not an accomplishment, it is not even the bare minimum that you should be expecting from him. It’s irrelevant that other people you know have partners who are objectively ‘worse’, someone else being shit doesn’t excuse his own shitty behaviour. You asked what others expect of a husband/father and I think most would agree that prioritising their children is first and foremost. That along with not wasting money on addiction that the children are no doubt aware of/have been impacted by. A man should treat his wife/mother of his children with kindness and respect. He should be emotionally and physically available to you and your children, he should provide stability and reassurance, he should be reliable and trustworthy. Your husband is none of these things. These are just the basics you should expect before getting into the nitty gritty of sharing housework, childcare, allowing each of you to have personal time, doing things as a family and as a couple. The fact you think it’s ok to settle for less is baffling to me.

It makes me so sad that you think this behaviour is acceptable and that you’re still trying to appease him even though you have done nothing wrong. You took a positive step by getting him to move out, he’s had 3 months to work on himself and show he’s taking responsibility of his own life but he’s done nothing to improve the situation. I would suggest you need to officially end your relationship and only communicate with regards to co-parenting your children. Do not let him stop paying maintenance, he has a responsibility to your children, stop trying to appease him. Focus on yourself and work on rebuilding your self-esteem. If down the line he manages to get another woman pregnant (although I doubt this as he’s not exactly a catch!) you will deal with it but by then you will hopefully be in a better place to deal with it than you are now.

What does he mean by "his turn". Does he think you should buy him stuff on rotation with the other children?
That he should have a "turn" whereby you spend money on him?

When was the last time he spent significant money - his own money - on something just for you?

You say he pays towards things...
Well tell him you will open an account,
Both of you put £50 a month in the account.

That is £100 , or 4 years to get the car.
If you can afford more tell him you will match him . That way you can say well you didn't save so I didn't.

This man deserves precisely NOTHING from you. Nothing. He’s a bottom dwelling, emotionally abusive scumbag. Jesus. I hope you see that soon. Give him nothing further, including your headspace.

A man like this should have one choice in front of him:
a) Grow up. Put his children first, whether you are together or apart. Commit to supporting them, straighten out the drinking, learn how to do a simple budget and set up a direct debit to savings (FFS).
Or
b) Fuck right off. His drinking, drugs, childish attention seeking and whining aren’t doing anyone any good.

Instead, as so often, he goes for c) - hang about whining about how shit his life is, and it’s your fault. He’s around because he wants a scapegoat instead of taking responsibility.

Women are always being advised to get therapy on here but I think there seem to be many men who require quite intensive therapy - and its main theme should be She’s Not Your Mother.

You can’t help him. You could try, but you would only be enabling him.

I think it would be a huge mistake for you and your children if you get back together with this man. He has crossed so many lines, and he still isn’t taking responsibility for his actions. He is showing no signs of being able to function like a responsible adult. The only thing you can change is your response to the situation.

Not RTFT so apologies if I’m repeating. You need to break ties completely IMO.

I was married to an alcoholic and no matter how much help I gave him, it didn’t make any difference because he didn’t actually want to help himself, despite his protests to the contrary.

He will blame you of course - mine did.

I ended up kicking mine out and he had to sleep in his van (he was also violent when drunk) so I had no qualms about kicking him out even though we were joint tenants at that point.

You need to concentrate on you and the kids.

@Honeymonster2 we do have kids together. I decided I was done having kids when I was pregnant with my second though and I would never want to have any more kids.

I have thought about him having kids with his new woman (I think she is younger than me). But good luck to her if they do because it will be her raising them, not him.

The thing that hurts me is that he has now stopped drinking (But he is a dry drunk and not done it with any support to fix his mental. He's still grumpy and miserable about everything). It does make me sad that he couldn't get his act together and sober up for me. I sometimes blame myself for his drinking (even though his entire family are alcoholics). But I see now we weren't right for each other. I am focusing on myself and am intentionally single while I fix my self esteem. From what I can see of his new relationship, it is very similar to how we were when we started dating. I don't want to say he is making the same mistakes even if he is. I am just glad he is in a decent place so he can be there for our kids.

@Honeymonster2 you don’t sound remotely awful. Please don’t say that … you are not. This is a difficult situation all round and you’ve borne the brunt of it. Kids don’t buy their own cakes and presents - he’s being envious and ridiculous. Yes he can save up if he can be bothered. Don’t take the bait.

Zoom out a minute

Alcoholic in active addiction wants to buy a car. How is that likely to work out if he gets one?

The bigger issue here is that you're still entertaining his bullshit.

Cut him off until he's been sober for a good long time

You need to wake up about the reality here, he is not a good person to be around children and you're deluded if you think you can change him.

He isn't ready to stop drinking so its going to keep getting worse until he hits rock bottom, makes a choice to stop ... Or dies.

I wouldn't worry about him moving on. I doubt anyone else would be interested.

The thought of him moving on makes you feel sick?

I'm sorry OP but he already has something else in his life. Booze. You are second to alcohol. So he has "moved on" already. You've kicked him out and have noticed no difference in the household load.
What is he bringing to your relationship? You are worth more than this. As a PP said, you have to learn to love and prioritise yourself and right now you can't see that crumbs from his table is not what you should accept. This man is not good enough for you. You deserve better

His commitment is to the bottle and himself. Take you and dc and leave him to it.

You’re not his mum. His number one priority is himself I think, one of those men that can’t understand why everyone doesn’t put him first.

The physical load and mental load of the kids didn't change at all, which showed me there was not much help before? What do other men do in their homes? He's not as bad as some of the other dads at the school gates I hear about through the mums. But what is normal?

I can't speak to what is normal - when I ended it with my ex, I found it easier as at least I was only looking after myself and the kids and not doing so much for him too...

Mind you, my friends were shocked at some of the things I'd grown used to, so I think mine was one of the ones at the bottom (TBH, your DH sounds not so far off either)

He ducked out of vasectomy/any responsibility for contraception too, and I was shit scared of getting pregnant again (2 EMCSes, plus I was feeling lost in house/kids/job and didn't want another baby to extend that longer than it already was), so he hated that too - he was inclined to try and get out of using condoms (although only with me, not with the prostitutes/gay club hookups.. he alleged at least after I found out about them - yeah.. bottom of the barrel he was it turns out)

I'm going to throw this out here OP. How long were you together before you had kids OP? Did you do everything for you both as a couple before the kids? Did you do all of the housework and organising when it was just you two? Were you essentially his mother before you had kids?

Then after you had kids you had to do everything for them because he couldn't/wouldn't didn't? Even though you expected/hoped he would step up as a father and do what came so naturally to you all of the time? Then that's when his drinking really ramped up (even though it had always been there, just not as bad)?

That was my relationship with my ex. I was his replacement mum. Then the kids came along and I couldn't be his mum anymore when I could barely look after myself. And he hated me for it. He found a new girlfriend/replacement mum and left me for her.

I'm further down the line in our separation now. My question to you would be, why do you even care what his point of view is? Are you hoping that your relationship can be fixed? He is broken and he needs to fix himself. You cannot do that for him. He needs to learn to love himself and fix himself. You need to learn to love yourself and fix yourself too. The only way your relationship will survive is if you sacrifice yourself to do it. Do you really want that?

Read Codependent no more and Women who love too much if you haven't already. Get yourself to Al anon (I only went once it was a bit happy clappy for me but still give it a go). Focus on yourself. He is his own problem. I'm just glad my ex has someone else to leach off now so he hasn't come back sniffing around.

he feels pushed out because he says I'm his number 1 priority but the children are mine
Not true. His number 1 priority is alcohol. That's why he doesn't have money to buy things.
He's a lost cause OP because he won't get help with his alcoholism. Instead he wants you to "help" him with it but rejects everything you suggest.
The rest of the "help" he wants from you is for you to give him money.
It's all about him. This marriage is dead in the water and your best bet would be to end it now while you're separated. All he will do if you continue talking is whine about you not giving him money.

Please listen to this.

He’s never going to take responsibility for himself and he’s not YOUR responsibility.

Keep your life stable for your children.

I've literally never heard of something more pathetic. What a baby he is! He's literally asking to be parented by you with parity to your actual children.

I'm going to be honest with you here OP, because I lived with and had DS with a functioning alcoholic.

When we spilt up I ran round like a blue arse fly, trying to help him, enabling his relationship with DS and I had all the promises of he was trying to stop drinking. He felt so alone ... Just like yours.

Alcoholics are selfish and will say anything to just carry on as they are. Not going to the doctor, not liking the group set up ... it's all just excuses because as long as you continue to enable him, he will just carry on, not taking any responsibility for himself and fucking up everyone and every thing around him.

I went no contact with mine. I blocked his number, told him he was genuinely on his own and was getting nothing from me. What he did then was up to him.

He went to the doctor, he went to AA, both things he couldn't possibly do before and he's been sober now for 13 years. We didn't get back together, that was never happening, but he's stepped up beyond my wildest dreams. He's been a brilliant Dad to DS and a great friend and co-parent for me.

It feels wrong, you don't want to turn your back on him but OP you need to now be cruel to be kind. He needs to sink or swim on his own, so long as you're there, he will not stop drinking.

This arguement is pathetic and absolutely not the problem here.

he says I'm his number 1 priority but the children are mine and always have been, so he says for him it's me, the kids, himself. And for me it's the kids, me and then him and that hurts his feelings.

Does he not see that you should both be prioritising the kids - the vulnerable small beings that you have joint responsibility for? And that for all he says he prioritises the kids, and you over himself, he's spent a fortune on booze, and objects to you doing things for the children - so whilst his words are you/kids/him his actions are him/him/him

But he sees it as he's bottom of the list again and I should put as much money and effort in to his wants as I do the house and kids.

Does he put as much money and effort into the kids as you do? Or are you having to put in extra because he doesn't (I know the answer - his actions clearly aren't putting the kids first). The effort he doesn't put into the children/house you have to make up. You would have capacity to put more in for him if he put more in for the kids. There's only so much of you to go around, and kids have to take priority.

He thinks that because he put some money (although munimal effort by the sounds of it) towards something for HIS OWN CHILDREN that in return you should put some money towards his car?! Because he's too heavy to be allowed on the kids slide is it? Because he doesn't want to play in the garden? Waaa waaah it's NOT FAIR!!!!

What. A. Baby.

And no, you can't make him happy, that is entirely his responsibility.

Being harsh, all you are doing by even listening to his shit is enabling him to carry on giving you responsibility and completely avoiding it himself. So stop. You are clearly a terrific Mum and your energy needs to go 💯 into the five of you. I know you would like your kids to have a happy sober, engaged dad too, but nothing you can do can deliver that for them, only he can make that happen.