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Farage is leader of the opposition

257 replies

Aladdinzane · 14/06/2024 15:04

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-live-updates-reform-labour-tories-3110227

Farage is claiming he is the de facto leader of the opposition and that he should get a head to head debate with Starmer. His party currently holds no seats.

What do you think?

Is someone positioning himself for something after the election?

Farage calls for spot on BBC debate as 'leader of the opposition' after poll boost

The Reform leader said a YouGov poll showing his party ahead of the Tories means he should be on next week's leaders' debate

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-live-updates-reform-labour-tories-3110227

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Aladdinzane · 15/06/2024 12:50

@Trinity65

You think it's good Farage claims he is leader of the opposition?

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Trinity65 · 15/06/2024 12:35

Good !!

newnamethanks · 15/06/2024 12:24

He's a fascist, that's plain. It's inexpedient for him to voice that but it's what he is. The generations that remembered the 1930s and subsequent developments have all died off, only a few are left. Everyone should acquaint themselves with what that could mean for this country. We won't like it if we find ourselves there through sheer laziness and ignorance.

Aladdinzane · 15/06/2024 12:15

Farage vs Hislop.

This is the ideal situation

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ExpressCheckout · 15/06/2024 12:05

@cakeorwine But these are rushed debates with soundbites - little time for detailed exploration.

Yes, exactly. I think the media do the public a disservice.

I'd like to see Beth Rigby (or someone else) have a full hour buttonholing Farage. She's brighter than him, and an hour might be long enough to wear him down.

Sadly, the media are probably right in thinking that the modern TV viewer wouldn't be able to engage with a 1-1 interview in prime time.

BrigadierEtienneGerard · 15/06/2024 12:05

I have scraped better things than that man off of the sole of my boot.

cakeorwine · 15/06/2024 12:01

Aladdinzane · 15/06/2024 11:56

I think what they are saying is that there seems to be a certain demographic that gets away with far more of it in public life?

You need the voice and the mannerisms.

On the debate, there was a question about whether people who come here on work visas should be allowed to bring their dependants - that didn't really get explored and Farage was keen to dismiss that. He said that "You shouldn't bring your mum over" - which you can't do anyway - but he exaggerated something for effect.

He should have been asked what effect it would have if people who we need to work here can't bring a spouse / children over? But these are rushed debates with soundbites - little time for detailed exploration.

Shining light on his views can expose the issues with them. When you just can't come up with soundbites but have to actually understand the issue.

ExpressCheckout · 15/06/2024 12:00

Aladdinzane · 15/06/2024 11:56

I think what they are saying is that there seems to be a certain demographic that gets away with far more of it in public life?

Yes, I understand that, but I do think it's a lazy shorthand, that's all, and there is good and bad in all politicians irrespective of skin colour.

Aladdinzane · 15/06/2024 11:56

ExpressCheckout · 15/06/2024 11:54

Why 'white'? Are you saying that it's only white people who bullshit?

I think what they are saying is that there seems to be a certain demographic that gets away with far more of it in public life?

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ExpressCheckout · 15/06/2024 11:54

Sue152 · 15/06/2024 11:47

Surely what we learn from Farage is that if you are a white privately educated male that can bullshit like your life depends on it, then you'll probably do really well in life.

Why 'white'? Are you saying that it's only white people who bullshit?

CheshireCat1 · 15/06/2024 11:52

Farage is only the leader of his own personal dictatorship, the company Reform.

Aladdinzane · 15/06/2024 11:52

beguilingeyes · 15/06/2024 11:37

It's not just R4 though is it? I never listen to Radio 4 and I'm sick of the sight of him. How many times has he been on Question Time? He's like Bojo. He makes good copy so the media are all over him.

Somebody I know at the BBC was that the word on the street there about his appearances on QT was that whenever they offered a UKIP appearance to the party, Farage took it. Other parties vary their representation, Farage went every, single, time, that they offered a UKIP candidate/representative on

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Notonthestairs · 15/06/2024 11:49

"He can't be removed as Reform party leader but he could be removed as PM if the majority of MPs opposed him."

What is the contractual relationship between Reform and its candidates? Presumably there is one. How would they replace a leader?

Sue152 · 15/06/2024 11:47

Surely what we learn from Farage is that if you are a white privately educated male that can bullshit like your life depends on it, then you'll probably do really well in life.

ExpressCheckout · 15/06/2024 11:39

beguilingeyes · 15/06/2024 11:37

It's not just R4 though is it? I never listen to Radio 4 and I'm sick of the sight of him. How many times has he been on Question Time? He's like Bojo. He makes good copy so the media are all over him.

^Yes, this, I agree

beguilingeyes · 15/06/2024 11:37

ExpressCheckout · 15/06/2024 09:55

Brilliant interview on PM on Radio 4 yesterday (Friday). The interviewer asked a polling expert whether the media frenzy around Farage actually increased support for him. Pricking her London Media Bubble, the expert reminded the interviewer that people who support Reform/Farage were very unlikely to listen to Radio 4 😂

It's not just R4 though is it? I never listen to Radio 4 and I'm sick of the sight of him. How many times has he been on Question Time? He's like Bojo. He makes good copy so the media are all over him.

NotDavidTennant · 15/06/2024 11:34

Churchview · 14/06/2024 22:00

I understand how our voting system works.

I'm not talking about our power - we vote the party in in good faith for 5 years, I know that.

However, in other parties, during that 5 years there is peer control.
Reform UK won't have that. Nobody within the company can remove him.

He can behave a appallingly as he sees fit and the company and country have no redress for five years.

No, that's not how it works. He can't be removed as Reform party leader but he could be removed as PM if the majority of MPs opposed him.

Notonthestairs · 15/06/2024 11:19

We have fewer CT and MRi scanners per head than many of our European neighbours - that leads to diagnostic delays. Fewer beds. Fewer doctors & nurses. We spend less on administration.

www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/comparing-nhs-to-health-care-systems-other-countries

•	Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
•	If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
•	Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
•	Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decade

beguilingeyes · 15/06/2024 11:01

NHS funding has been cut, in real terms, since the Tories came to power. Fourteen years ago it's approval rating was sky high.
This is what they do.

Aladdinzane · 15/06/2024 11:01

TBF many of the NHS's problems are caused by funding cuts to social care.

No longer can we get people out of hospitals and treated at home, they've got to stay till any care they need has been totally completed.

This blocks beds, means staff can't be reallocated, and slows the entire process down, making things rather more expensive.

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ll09sm · 15/06/2024 10:34

PrincessTeaSet · 14/06/2024 23:00

So you think the NHS can be brought back up to standard at the same time as making tax cuts? How would that work?

Putting record funding into it has made the NHS worse. So there is clearly no evidence that giving yet more will make it better.

cakeorwine · 15/06/2024 10:04

fliptopbin · 15/06/2024 09:55

Have sll of the people going on about proportional representation forgotten that we had s referendum on this,and hardly anybody voted.

I suspect this might change now.

I also think it would affect the votes and seats that parties like the Lib Dems and Greens get as well.

PrincessTeaSet · 15/06/2024 10:00

MeanGreen · 14/06/2024 18:43

They have a working contract (just had a look).

To be honest it doesn’t read as “we hate foreigners “, it addresses stuff that has just been fudged around in the last few years.

Like I said, if there is no damage in illegal immigration let’s have those discussions to shed light on it. Show up what a tit Farage is.
Unfortunately any talks thus far with our current leaders don’t seem to address or change anything.

Many threads on MN have come to a conclusion that a European health insurance system is inevitable at some point, that the NHS is beyond repair in its current form. Again, have real conversations about how the NHS can be sorted would be good right about now. As it is the “plans” (in the loosest sense of the word) I’ve heard/read so far have no substance and no real way of showing how improvements are actually going to be achievable. But it needs thrashing out, not dismissing because someone’s saying something unpopular.

Farage is absolutely a bandwagon grifter, but he appears to have listened to people’s concerns and appears to be willing to take them seriously, which is more than can be said for Sunak and Starmer. Tories have had 14 years to make a dent on the mess we’re in. Starmer has had 4 years of being leader of the opposition. We don’t have a lot to show for it. Maybe if things weren’t such a shambles there wouldn’t be such a public appetite for Reform.

To be clear I am not voting Reform, I’m not right wing in any way. However I feel like I’ve learned from the Brexit shitshow that it’s not enough to put up with lazy polarisation. That way chaos and destruction lies.

Farage's so called plans to sort the NHS include cutting tax and giving all NHS workers a tax free income. And giving a tax break to people who use private healthcare.

Clearly Farage is not a stupid man. He doesn't actually believe that you can run a health service on very little money. He just thinks voters are stupid.

The European insurance based systems all cost a lot more per head than the NHS. They spend a third more than us, at least. Why does Farage think it would be cheaper here? If anything it would cost more due to the poverty and health inequality that is so much worse here than elsewhere (more people on benefits, addicted, obese etc)

The immigration issue is so bad partly because the Tories didn't staff the departments properly leading to 2 year delays in cases being heard. This is the cause of the need for housing them in hotels, barracks etc. Apart from that the UK takes far fewer asylum seekers than other European countries. Most asylum seekers stay near their country of origin. Then some stay in other European countries. Only a small minority make it as far as the uk. This problem is constantly misrepresented by the press. The existence of asylum seekers is largely due to western foreign policy.

fliptopbin · 15/06/2024 09:55

Have sll of the people going on about proportional representation forgotten that we had s referendum on this,and hardly anybody voted.

ExpressCheckout · 15/06/2024 09:55

Brilliant interview on PM on Radio 4 yesterday (Friday). The interviewer asked a polling expert whether the media frenzy around Farage actually increased support for him. Pricking her London Media Bubble, the expert reminded the interviewer that people who support Reform/Farage were very unlikely to listen to Radio 4 😂