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To think if you can no longer afford school fees...

658 replies

TiredMumE · 13/06/2024 19:54

that is tough.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Blarneytalk · 14/06/2024 05:01

WhySoManySocks · 14/06/2024 02:10

Private schools should be abolished.

Why? Because you're jealous?

asterel · 14/06/2024 03:05

I’ve always been a Labour voter, but it’s a disappointingly poor and spiteful policy designed to play to public sentiment, even if that ends up badly thought through and counterproductive. In this sense it’s just like the Tory policies like the 2-child benefit cap and the bedroom tax - counterproductive, punitive, doesn’t really raise or save any money, but instead is a bit of theatrics to play off the worst instincts of the voter base (eg. wanting to punish other sections of society rather than design real policies that make sense and work fairly).

It’s bloody obvious that it won’t hurt the comfortably wealthy or the really rich, but instead the children (not even the parents, actually), of middle-income families. It’ll put extra pressure on surrounding state schools, make small independent schools not viable (most especially those catering largely to SEN kids), and not actually raise much money. Far from “closing a tax break” (a very misleading phrase), it takes advantage of the fact that we’re now not in the EU to bring in a new tax on educational services. It involves all sorts of other implications for other forms of educational services, and paves the way for taxing those, too (why not start taxing tutoring, summer schools, music lessons, university fees, all sorts?)

What would be truly equitable and progressive is taxing the genuinely rich, corporate profits, asset-hoarding, landlords, and rentierism of all kinds, in order to improve state education. Not explicitly targeting children because you’re envious of their parents, which actually ends up falling on middle income people while the really well off are merrily unaffected.

We’re about to start paying for DD to attend a private school. We’re very definitely middle income - in fact we’ve managed for the last ten years on around £50k a year household income in the south east - not easy with recent levels of inflation. Our family income will go up next year with a new job, but we’ll be paying the exact amount of the increase back out in school fees. We can’t afford to buy a house; we still won’t be able to when our income goes up anyway (2-bed flats here, for whole counties around, are well over 500k). DD has been awarded a sizeable bursary and two academic and music scholarships to cover part of the fees. We’ve prioritised her education over things like holidays or luxuries; but we are genuinely pretty poorly off compared to lots and lots of other quite average people who own one or more properties, lead much more expensive lifestyles, drive much more expensive cars, go on holidays, and so on.

It’s going to be kids like DD who will be affected by Labour’s policy, not the children of footballers or aristos or property dealers or the comfortably off; or indeed the kids and grandkids of people who’ve made tons of unearned cash in the property bubble. Those won’t be the kids who need to move schools. So all this serves is to focus a bit of spite on those who are a little bit better off, but it won’t touch the actual rich at all: Eton and Winchester will blithely carry on. It’s a mean-spirited, counterproductive and petty policy that is, I think, emblematic of the current Labour party’s disappointing lack of vision and genuine commitment to addressing the structural inequality of our economy.

We have an economy massively distorted by a housing bubble that disincentivises productive investment; incredibly low productivity; poor wages; poor growth; a situation that encourages malinvestment, speculation and rent-seeking of all sorts. The housing bubble and Brexit have been the biggest blights on our economy that anyone could have devised. And the answer is to tax the education of a small number of kids? That’s not redistribution; that’s weak and short-sighted tinkering around the edges while leaving the real issues completely untouched. It’s pretending that all our economic ills are the fault of the slightly posher Joneses down the road; just like the Tories liked to pretend that all our money was going on all those extra bedrooms in the council houses of people only just a bit poorer than you. And, as we well know, both of those things are nonsense. I’d thought better of Labour, to be honest.

Mamai100 · 14/06/2024 02:30

BotDranning · 13/06/2024 20:45

What a nasty nasty post.

I have friends who have decided to only have one child and worked their arses off to pay to send their child to private school. He is in year 12 and will have to leave due to this tax. They made a sensible decisions.

Of course they could have sat on their backsides, produced loads of kids they can't afford and claim benefits.....
Which is better 🤔?

And you think the OPs post was nasty?

Nouvellenovel · 14/06/2024 02:28

WhySoManySocks · 14/06/2024 02:10

Private schools should be abolished.

Why?

Why don’t we abolish luxury cars, houses with more than five bedrooms, big gardens, the Royal Opera House, gin bars, Michelin starred restaurants, designer clothing and first class flights, first class train seats, luxury hotels.

Why don’t we turn the UK into a communist state?

WhySoManySocks · 14/06/2024 02:10

Private schools should be abolished.

angeltop · 14/06/2024 02:09

£3000 gain to taxman, £8000 cost to taxpayer.

Lovepeaceunderstanding · 14/06/2024 00:45

@TiredMumE , really you don’t care about young, vulnerable people at academically difficult points in their education being utterly uprooted from their teachers and friends?

Jumpingthruhoops · 14/06/2024 00:40

ShouldhavebeencalledAppollo · 13/06/2024 20:01

So many people starting threads just to have a dig at people whose children go to private school.

It doesn't impact me either way, non of mine went private. It was never an option.

But I can totally understand people being pissed off about a 20% tax being added to something they pay for.

Not sure why some are so eager to try and getvpeople to shut up about things that are impacting them. Or so gleeful, that it might happen.

I've seen a lot of that on here. It's called jealousy. Plain and simple. People delighting in the misfortune of those who they believe to be well off enough to send their kids to private school. It's so mean-spirited. However, anecdotally, most of the parents I know whose kids go to private school are on very modest incomes and may now have to take their child out. So, yes, they do have my sympathies.

Willyoujustbequiet · 14/06/2024 00:27

juggleit · 13/06/2024 23:52

Thats great news - where do you live so we can all Move into your area? Just aswell you have a
Good school for your kids as you sound, quite frankly, a bit dim with that comment!

That comment doesn't sound dim at all. It's simply the truth surely.

MyNameIsFine · 14/06/2024 00:26

viques · 13/06/2024 23:45

We were funding it anyway. Oh, and when he was in his leafy prep, you were funding state primaries. So thanks for that. XX

I'm guessing Teentaxidriver has probably noticed before that she pays taxes!

HappyCompromise · 14/06/2024 00:24

Wow horrendous goading here.

My partner said earlier hes gone full circle and might vote Tory. I looked at him with a raised eyebrow. Apparently he’s thinking he doesn’t want them to have a strong majority. Reading this thread I am thinking I might join him tbh. Because this is clearly a class war. Nothing to do with maths teachers.

Batyhatty · 14/06/2024 00:24

Im not familiar with this educational system but why would anyone be rubbing their hands with glee over this increase. is this not just another way of ensuring that only the exceedingly rich (1%) will be able to access superior educational opportunity while the rest of us chavs are put firmly in our place.

MyNameIsFine · 14/06/2024 00:22

Blarneytalk · 13/06/2024 20:04

@EatTheGnome has it all cured to you that other stuff may have had a financial impact and this is the final straw?

The amount of people gleeful at children losing their school places is awful.

Why are people so angry that some privately educate their children?

It's a combination of cost of living, wage stagnation, fees going up above inflation (to pay for the increase in teachers' pension contributions, but Labour won't tell you that bit), and now the prospect of a very hefty tax. People made the choice before the pandemic and couldn't have foreseen all of that. There's also the issue that many people HAVE planned for a change in their circumstances, and now they're going to have to spend all of that, and will be in trouble if their circumstances change.

dottiedodah · 14/06/2024 00:15

I think there is a whiff of ha ha serves u right to these kinds of posts tbh
.if everyone at private suddenly went to the state .just more pressure on places.lots of people for many reasons make a sacrifice to send dc fee paying. Keir and his ilk are full of hot air .Will be worth seeing what happens when they are elected!

Apolloneuro · 14/06/2024 00:09

I’m wrong. It’s 23%

To think if you can no longer afford school fees...
juggleit · 14/06/2024 00:06

Livelovebehappy · 13/06/2024 23:55

The irony being that these ‘very good’ state schools are usually good because they’re populated by pupils whose parents have cottoned on how good they are and buy up the houses in the catchment area, or lie about where they live, to get places there.

Indeed - as did Keir Starmer. There is not a chance in hell
He would of moved to a catchment with a failing school

Add in all the extra tutoring to bring the kids up to scratch which distorts the real picture.

I am sick to back teeth with these
Politicians! They really actually are part of one huge sharade! 😡

Dibblydoodahdah · 14/06/2024 00:05

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 13/06/2024 22:06

how about that nobody else anywhere charges VAT on education?
Everything I have read states that “most” countries do not tax private school fees, which means some do. For example, Greece charges 23% VAT on private school fees.

people always conveniently forget that the vast majority of people paying for school fees are already contributing far, far more in tax to the treasury than the people going on about unfair "tax breaks."

As a % of their income, poorer people pay more overall tax than richer people. This is because poorer people have to spend all their money on essentials that include VAT, whereas the better off, the top 7% that can afford private school fees have so much disposable cash that they hoard it into tax shelters and get higher tax relief on pensions.

Greece did impose 23% VAT on school fees but it resulted in many of the things people are warning will happen if VAT is introduced here so they reversed it. Greece is really not the argument for VAT that you think it is.

Willyoujustbequiet · 14/06/2024 00:03

Apolloneuro · 14/06/2024 00:02

According to the gov.uk site, only 27% of state secondary schools are at capacity.

Thank you.

Kinda blows a hole in that argument then!

Apolloneuro · 14/06/2024 00:02

Willyoujustbequiet · 13/06/2024 21:16

I can't speak for other areas but all the schools (outstanding) in my area have spare places.

According to the gov.uk site, only 27% of state secondary schools are at capacity.

Willyoujustbequiet · 14/06/2024 00:01

Livelovebehappy · 13/06/2024 23:55

The irony being that these ‘very good’ state schools are usually good because they’re populated by pupils whose parents have cottoned on how good they are and buy up the houses in the catchment area, or lie about where they live, to get places there.

We have an outstanding state school and catchment has no effect as it's not the priority criteria. I know we aren't the only ones.

Troubledprimarymum · 14/06/2024 00:00

I can't understand the bitterness on this thread. How does it affect you if other people choose to prioritise and pay for education instead of big cars and holidays?

You're applauding the additional costs on fee paying schools but it will be added on to uni and college fees too and will you still be smirking and gleeful then?

Willyoujustbequiet · 13/06/2024 23:59

Livelovebehappy · 13/06/2024 23:51

I mean, come on, who would send their child to a state school if they could afford not to? Generally, the majority are full of feral kids who haven’t been parented properly, and visit the result of lazy parenting on others around them. Wouldn’t we all give our kids the best start in life we could if we could afford it? And if you say you wouldn’t, because of your ‘principles’, then shame on you…. Disclaimer - mine went to state school, and despite the school being the pits, turned out okay. But many don’t.

This post is so ignorant.

I could afford to but don't. There is no need because our school is better than the private.

Feral kids? Lol

SabrinaThwaite · 13/06/2024 23:56

Livelovebehappy · 13/06/2024 23:51

I mean, come on, who would send their child to a state school if they could afford not to? Generally, the majority are full of feral kids who haven’t been parented properly, and visit the result of lazy parenting on others around them. Wouldn’t we all give our kids the best start in life we could if we could afford it? And if you say you wouldn’t, because of your ‘principles’, then shame on you…. Disclaimer - mine went to state school, and despite the school being the pits, turned out okay. But many don’t.

Me.

HTH.

Livelovebehappy · 13/06/2024 23:55

BIWI · 13/06/2024 19:57

State schools where I live are actually very, very good. So I have no sympathy with any parent who thinks that their child is going to suffer from having to go to one.

(SEN provision is obviously a different kettle of fish)

The irony being that these ‘very good’ state schools are usually good because they’re populated by pupils whose parents have cottoned on how good they are and buy up the houses in the catchment area, or lie about where they live, to get places there.

juggleit · 13/06/2024 23:52

BIWI · 13/06/2024 19:57

State schools where I live are actually very, very good. So I have no sympathy with any parent who thinks that their child is going to suffer from having to go to one.

(SEN provision is obviously a different kettle of fish)

Thats great news - where do you live so we can all Move into your area? Just aswell you have a
Good school for your kids as you sound, quite frankly, a bit dim with that comment!

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