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That restaurants should know parmesan isn't vegetarian?

360 replies

SpikyCoconut · 13/06/2024 16:11

My Mum has booked this restaurant and asked if I want to come along.

Surely the chef should know this?

https://www.315barandrestaurant.co.uk/

Wibu to get in touch with them and ask if it is actually a parmesan substitute (in which case it should be labelled correctly!) Or if they can develop a different dish that actually IS vegetarian? There are two dishes with parmesan on the vegetarian menu.

315 Bar and Restaurant, Lepton, Huddersfield – 315 boasts fine dining, luxury accommodation, an invigorating health spa and so much more

https://www.315barandrestaurant.co.uk

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Wordsofprey · 14/06/2024 10:59

I disagree with you and the majority of commenters. I haven't read past page 1 but this is my understanding:

Vegetarian - does not eat meat or fish. Can consume animal products, such as eggs, milk, extracts, butter, fat, and so on.

Vegan - does not eat meat, fish, or animal products. No animal fats, no honey, no eggs, and so on, or anything that is produced from an animal, such as rennet.

Obviously as human beings people are welcome to twist and change the definitions of these ideologies however they please, but traditionally vegetarians CAN consume animal products. It is vegans who CANNOT.

So I don't think what the chef has said here is wrong at all - cheese is vegetarian, even those containing rennet, as they do not contain MEAT or FISH and and just contain animal products - which vegetarians are allowed and do eat, by traditional definition.

If vegetarians can't consume animal products, what is the distinction between vegetarianism and veganism?

KirstenBlest · 14/06/2024 09:04

But when they do have supposedly ‘vegetarian’ meals on a vegetarian menu, then they should be vegetarian.
I agree.
They would not get away with claiming an item was free of sesame seeds if it wasn't.

CatModel · 14/06/2024 09:00

mitogoshi · 14/06/2024 07:48

But do remember that many vegetarians aren't that fussy, neither of my DDs check the cheese is veggie as they accept it's just a by product and they are eating dairy anyway. They choose not to knowingly eat meat or fish though.

As for restaurants, there's no legal requirement to serve vegetarian or vegan food, so if a restaurant doesn't bother having vegetarian dishes, go elsewhere

Yes. But when they do have supposedly ‘vegetarian’ meals on a vegetarian menu, then they should be vegetarian.

KirstenBlest · 14/06/2024 08:59

@VJBR Frankly I find most vegan food unappealing and not that healthy. Two much salt is often used to give it flavour. Filo pastry with Mediterranean veg, caramelised onion and pesto sounds pretty good compared to some vegan dishes I’ve seen.

It sounds fine but it's lacking protein if you remove the cheese. I'm bored of goats' cheese (every sodding menu) but the alternative is vegan cheese.

I find many of the plant-based meat and dairy substitutes hard to digest. I'd rather not eat a meal out and then suffer.

TheStateOfTheArt · 14/06/2024 08:56

Rocknrollstar · 14/06/2024 08:53

My DD was amazed to discover when we were on holiday last year that wine isn’t vegetarian either. It hasn’t stopped her drinking it though.

You can get vegetarian wine (and vegan wine now I think). She might just need to check the labels carefully. Although she doesn’t sound too fussed!

Rocknrollstar · 14/06/2024 08:53

My DD was amazed to discover when we were on holiday last year that wine isn’t vegetarian either. It hasn’t stopped her drinking it though.

willWillSmithsmith · 14/06/2024 08:51

It doesn’t seem like a very vegetarian friendly place to me. It has their vegetarian leaf symbol next to crab bruschetta?

sashh · 14/06/2024 08:09

S0livagant · 14/06/2024 06:23

I've eaten rose veal from a calf at foot dairy. Then had vegetarians, who eat large amounts of dairy cheese judge me for it.

Yep. I find it odd too.

I do eat meat but I'm lactose intolerant so I don't consume much milk although I do eat cheese.

A lot of people claim to be vegi and don't actually know what goes in to food production. I had one at a temporary workplace insist all the canteen meat was halal. They served bacon butties.

Demonhunter · 14/06/2024 08:08

S0livagant · 14/06/2024 06:59

I'm not vegetarian or vegan, but I agree it makes no sense. We can see the consequences of mass vegetarianism in the 5 million stray cattle in India. Male calves taken from mothers and abandoned.

Absolutely.

If someone is vegetarian for texture or dietary reasons that is one thing, but no vegetarian can try and hold some kind of moral high ground with inferences of animal welfare concerns.

I've found on MN and another forum, the vegetarians do this a lot whereas the vegans don't tend to have moral outrage of why is this restaurant/cafe/Hotel not catering to vegan posts, yet it's vegans who get tarred with that brush elsewhere and the veggies get off scott free from the venom (admittedly, there are some extreme vegan protesters that I don't agree with, nothing can or should be forced upon people and it's aggressive and controlling to do so)

I never expect a place to HAVE to serve a vegan option. I call ahead, ask, and if they don't, I go somewhere else, no moaning, no fuss.

A small cafe opened last year on a little village green near where I live. It's run by a couple of older ladies and they said they hadn't thought of plant based alternative milks (to be fair neither did Greggs until recently) so I asked if it was OK if I took a little pot of my own PB milk in when I go for coffee and they were happy with that. When you're in the minority, you need to learn how to work around and find compromises, rather than complain online and trying to shame specific restaurants.

mitogoshi · 14/06/2024 07:56

@Scooby2024

I've bought vegetarian Parmesan too, clearly has the V on the packaging. I'm thinking that it now is made from lab cultured rennet? We need to reach out to an Italian cheese maker for answers! It's only in the last couple of years I've seen it

mitogoshi · 14/06/2024 07:48

But do remember that many vegetarians aren't that fussy, neither of my DDs check the cheese is veggie as they accept it's just a by product and they are eating dairy anyway. They choose not to knowingly eat meat or fish though.

As for restaurants, there's no legal requirement to serve vegetarian or vegan food, so if a restaurant doesn't bother having vegetarian dishes, go elsewhere

mitogoshi · 14/06/2024 07:41

Real Parmesan isn't vegetarian but there's similar hard cheese that is, it's cheaper so perhaps they use that?

Valeriekat · 14/06/2024 07:39

I think many (good) restaurants offer vegan rather than vegetarian for this reason.
Too easy to get it wrong.

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 14/06/2024 07:30

It's local to me. It's no great shakes. You're much better off going to the Italian up the road.

If you do go though, id make up a sort of tapas of olives/hummus/roasted veg side dishes.

S0livagant · 14/06/2024 06:59

Demonhunter · 13/06/2024 22:05

So you don't want to eat something from a calf's stomach, but you will drink the milk meant for that calf after it's been ripped from it's mother and either reserved for death for being male or to become another female slave?
Honestly don't see how vegetarians have the audacity to complain publicly about being hard done by 🤯

I'm not vegetarian or vegan, but I agree it makes no sense. We can see the consequences of mass vegetarianism in the 5 million stray cattle in India. Male calves taken from mothers and abandoned.

kkneat · 14/06/2024 06:50

I’m vegetarian, numerous restaurants don’t know this even a well known chain of Italian restaurants!

BettyBlueHat · 14/06/2024 06:31

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 13/06/2024 16:45

It will be pecorino which unless you’re a seriously proper foodie tastes exactly the same as Parmesan.

It really doesn’t. It’s very salty and made from sheep’s milk. Do you mean Grana Padana? That tastes like Parmesan

BringMeSunshineAllDayLong · 14/06/2024 06:28

squashedalmondcroissant · 13/06/2024 20:05

Sorry, this is a bit of a rant!

As a (ex) chef, this is something that really pisses me off and has done for years. I had 2 good friends at school who were veggie and they really struggled eating out.

Now I'm veggie myself and my Dp is vegan and even though things are changing it's not much better in a lot of places.

Dp had to go away for a work training course last year and the hotel he stayed in offered a 'vegan pizza'. You know what it was? A courgette cut in half lengthways with some tomato sauce on it 😡

It truly annoys me that some chefs make so little effort to be inclusive. It's not just about vegans/veggies either, eggs and dairy are some of the most common allergens.

It's really not that hard!! Surely as someone who enjoys cooking and has a passion for food, you would WANT the opportunity to be creative and put something actually tasty and appealing on your menu?!

Dp and I recently went on holiday to a decent sized town with several lovely pubs serving food - there wasn't a single one that had ANY vegan options apart from chips and only one veggie option. Even that was boring and lazy.

Do better chefs!

I became a veggie in the early 80s. I remember on a school residential trip the vegetarians, instead of sausages or whatever the meat was were given one day a lump of cheddar and the next a pile of cold kidney beans from a tin including the vile juice.
Almost all veggie ready meals had those boiled to death diced carrots in them.

S0livagant · 14/06/2024 06:23

sashh · 14/06/2024 06:19

Totally off the point, but there is an argument we should eat more veal.

I've eaten rose veal from a calf at foot dairy. Then had vegetarians, who eat large amounts of dairy cheese judge me for it.

S0livagant · 14/06/2024 06:21

FunZebra · 14/06/2024 06:13

I don’t like the taste or texture of meat.

Or bananas. But there isn’t a name for that.

I haven't noticed any taste or texture of meat in cheeses containing rennet.

My DS also doesn't like bananas, but does in a smoothie, I get the texture thing.

sashh · 14/06/2024 06:19

S0livagant · 14/06/2024 05:50

Nope. Vegetarian is basically vegan + things that animals can 'give' without killing so milk eggs and honey. Although I knew a vegan who ate honey.

Does vegetarian cheese come from cows inseminated with sex selected sperm to avoid killing male calves?

Totally off the point, but there is an argument we should eat more veal.

FunZebra · 14/06/2024 06:13

S0livagant · 14/06/2024 05:46

It just doesn't make much sense to me to avoid rennet but eat dairy cheese that requires calves to be born. I understand veganism. I was wondering what a non animal rights based reason could be that's all.

I don’t like the taste or texture of meat.

Or bananas. But there isn’t a name for that.

Anyotherdude · 14/06/2024 06:11

SpikyCoconut · 13/06/2024 16:23

That's my thoughts exactly @sleekcat . If Its a sub, it should stipulate that on the menu. Otherwise It's false advertising.

Well, it could be an honest mistake, too…
I’ve managed to get to somewhere North of age 60, catered happily (I enjoy a challenge) for both Vegan and Vegetarian friends and family members over many years, and have never been advised by the Vegetarians, or, indeed, by any Vegetarian cookbook (before Internet) that they can’t eat certain cheeses. Maybe they also didn’t know?

Genevieva · 14/06/2024 06:04

I know vegetarians who eat cheese that contains rennet. Strict vegetarians are probably better off with vegan food or avoiding cheese when eating out.

Scooby2024 · 14/06/2024 05:56

Mothership4two · 14/06/2024 05:53

That is probably Italian hard cheese. Parmesan is not vegetarian

Yeah I no this but it actually states Parmesan on the packaging. It doesn't state hard cheese. But it clearly also states it's vegetarian.

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