That restaurants should know parmesan isn't vegetarian?

Interesting, thank you. I buy organic milk (and meat as far as possible) but it seems a bit futile. At every corner, there is something else. Like when we all bought free range eggs thinking it was high welfare.

Many are still killed soon after birth. To save them from this fate, their value needs to increase. If someone chooses to eat dairy then there is an argument that they should also eat rose veal. Increased demand for rose veal would see more male calves living until 6-8 months at least.

If a person eats dairy, they are responsible for both the calf produced to make that milk, and the milking cow when she stops calving. Vegetarianism is out of balance.

All of them?

Parmesan is a protected term in the EU, and therefore was protected in the UK until relatively recently. It's not surprising people aren't aware of the specifics.

Anyone can choose what they want or don't want to eat for any reason.

Saying you can't choose to not eat this product if you eat that product, is like saying you can't choose to recycle if you drive a petrol car or eat meat - just because you can't do everything to help the environment doesn't mean you shouldn't do something.

She's right though. Can't be holier than thou about rennet claiming you wont eat anything from animals if you happily eat dairy knowing your cheese and milk that you love so much was produced by forcible impregnation of cows and then have the calves ripped from their mothers and fed formula so you can have her babies milk for yourself. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

They could be kept as pets

Bullshit...

Parmigiano-Reggiano is a protected product, and as such follows quite strict guidelines in it's production.

Parmesan is not a protected product name. And many versions of parmesan are now made using vegetable rennet. 98% of all rennet containing cheeses in 2022 were made using vegetable rennet (which is produced using mold basically).

They could be kept as pets

Are there genuinely that many people that will care about rennet while eating dairy products that required the calf to be born in the first place? What do they think happens to the calves? I don't know a single genuine vegetarian myself, except for those moving towards plant based.

Thought the males go to meat. Which isn't exactly paradise, but the get a bit bigger and may be able to go outside. I don't want to eat an unweaned baby. That's messed up.

Of course, I was simply explaining the difference in vegetarian terms.

Yes chickens die as a result of the egg industry, but you don't literally need to murder a chicken in order to extract an egg- the same way that calfs don't lay rennet.

That looks like an amazing menu for a vegetarian.

They clearly know that parmesan isnt veggie as there is an alternative that is veggie friendly. Not everyone who eats off a vegetarian menu is a vegetarian. Many meat eaters also might like the sound of that dish.

BTW - i am a very strict vegetarian so i would before ordering it want to know if the other dishes that have cheese are suitable.

@Snooglequack , who elected you to decide where others draw the line of what they will or won’t eat. Mind your own business.

Frankly you sound insufferable. You can clearly request the vegan option, that’s one choice. You can contact them in advance and ask whether their cheese is with a vegetarian rennet. That’s a second choice. You can decline the invitation - that’s a third choice. All of these were options that I’m pretty sure you were fully aware of.

Quite simply, while the term vegetarian is in common usage to mean “no meat”, and that is commonly understood to mean don’t give me a chunk of meat - I think you are being unreasonable to get this angry about a place that might, but also might not, use a cheese you won’t eat.

Why do restaurants (and especially caterers) offer vegan but not non-vegan vegetarian? - it’s because they are running a business and need to make profit, and unless they’re getting lots of orders for their vegetarian and vegan options it’s not worth offering too many menus. Same with other restrictions - the vegan might also be gluten free to add that group in as well.

When you have a very restricted diet you’re eating out options are restricted. I’m continually confused by people who don’t understand this. Unless they have enough people coming through buying their different vegan and vegetarian options there’s no good business motivation to offer more. Vegetarian, especially strict vegetarian, is a heavily restricted diet.

If you’re a vegetarian that won’t eat cheese without confirming it’s vegetarian that’s fine. But I doubt you are the majority of diners purchasing that vegetarian dish - and so it’s not unexpected that for most places vegetarian means we didn’t add meat. Also - you don’t even know whether they are using a vegetarian cheese or have a vegetarian cheese option available! An Italian restaurant I love asks if you want parmesan just as they ask if you want pepper - you can just say no!

A male calf is also a by-product of the dairy industry. Vegetarians drive that industry just like omnivores. They can hardly all be kept in sanctuaries.

As an 80s child, avocado = face mask. 🤮

The male chicks are killed, at the most you could raise them to fully grown then eat them. You'd be overun by cockerels otherwise.

Sorry, that wasn't really aimed at (or challenging) you - more pondering following the report that you linked to.

It’s not part of my dietary mindset so I don’t know. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@SpikyCoconut

This was the thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5093100-being-vegetarian-is-so-tiresome?page=1

I don't really get what the difference is, though, between caring about the welfare of bees if you eat avocados and not being bothered about the welfare of animals who are killed by pesticides - or even the blades of combine harvesters - in humans wanting to keep/gather the crops all for themselves?

I think that the increase in veganism has almost 'downgraded' vegetarianism in a lot of ignorant people's minds.

I reckon they see a vegan as a 'proper vegetarian' and a vegetarian as somebody who is 'a bit fussy about meat, but isn't all that bothered as long as they can't really taste it'.

I did!

Brakes are the major supplier to the catering industry and they only sell non vegetarian parmesan.

It is therefore safer to assume that the Parmesan is not safe for vegetarians as the waiting staff are not going to know and I really wouldn't trust the chef to be 100% truthful even if they did know if it makes their token veggie dish not veggie at all!

To create rennet, the calf needs to be killed in order to extract the enzyme.

You don't have to kill a chicken to get an egg.

I agree that 'real' Parmesan isn't vegetarian, but I think it's a bit obtuse to say there's no such things as veggie parmesan because of the name- we widely accept terms such as 'vegan bacon' even though it clearly isn't actually bacon. Maybe the restaurant is using veggie parmesan- I would ask them before coming onto an online forum to shame them about it tbh.