To think private education probably isn't worth it?

It's dependant on individual circumstances. Where you live (some areas have much better state schools than other areas), child's specific needs (SEN or something else), etc.

Separately I know you said your post isn't about ethics but I can't help commenting on it. It's much less ethical imo to purchase a buy to let (inflating house prices) than paying private school fees. I appreciate that wasn't your question but it's relevant to the current political debate around Labour's plans on private schools and addressing inequality.

I agree with a previous poster that housing is the main issue regarding inequality. That's relevant for schools as much as anything else.

Getting a good state school depends on being able to afford to live in a particular area (same goes for access to good public services and job opportunities). Also unaffordable and substandard housing affects health, and poor health and poverty are interlinked.

Exactly this. About children being happy and confident in themselves and the ratios and opportunities at private make this much more likely to happen. The reward is happy children!!

And there's the true 'I'm all right, Jack' note of the private school parent buying privilege.

Yes. I'm autistic (although I didn't know it at the time, and my parents studiously avoided such words) and went to a private school...and it helped me enormously. The education itself was fundamentally better than the alternatives - the local state schools had never had anybody get more than a couple of As at GCSE, and most kids left without getting even six passes - but the environment itself was also far more suited to my preferences and the teachers actually had enough time to be able to tailor the education to the individual (even a poor scholarship kid like myself).

Our boys went to public school, one boarded from 11.
It was worth every penny, they had a full education rather than being taught the exam.

I think it depends what you want out of it.

If you're expecting return on investment that's a silly way to look at it.

If it's to ensure your children are extraordinary and will get into oxbridge etc etc etc, not worth it because none of that is a given.

Ditto if you think it's going to give them opportunities etc that will lift them up and give them an advantage.

If it's because it's the best school for that particular child, worth every penny imo (that's the choice I made).

If it's because the state schools aren't great where you are, worth every penny (although I totally agree no one should have to pay for education just because the state provision isn't up to scratch).

I think people assume all private schools are the same - very much not the case. The price ranges vary hugely, and like state schools there are good and bad ones.

Well it's not always about "financial return" is it? For me it's about ds happy and confident in school, and having access to lots of extra curricular in one place.

Probably not as cant guarantee future interests or jobs in a field that pays well.
I went private and did very mediocre. Brother also private was very clever and is on 100k. However children from our school generally drs, lawyers, teachers, author.

Imo benefits
Less disruption
Children are excluded for bad behaviour
Less focus on uniform
Better sport and opportunity as fewer kids
For girls only school - much better for girls knowing they can do science and maths

The difference between my brothers dc who go private and mine is huge even though 0-5 (and possibly 7) mine were ahead.

State school experience of my dc primary
60 kids in reception, way too much. Free flow made it worse.
Teachers read with my eldest just 6 times in the year. Maybe every 2-3weeks with TA. So couldnt move up bands
8 swimming lessons through whole primary
Pe mixed sex so by y6 the girls were somewhat overweight and unfit as not playing at all
Often youngest in year picked on by teacher for immature behaviour.
No push to move kids from met to exceeding. (Dc top 10% but never pushed)
Only effort put in was for SATs.
Kids who looked unlikely to pass sats removed from them and left at very low level
'Ability' confused concept as teachers assume children fninishing the work faster are bright.

Secondary
No homework marked
Lot of bullying/mean behaviour to kids they dont even know
Disruption
most homework has been revision

To be fair kids get picked on by teachers at private schools too.

Basically state school needs fixing. And if it is fine in some schools we need to improve the ones with issues.

I do know some parents who are frustrated by the career/earnings their dc have taken after such a huge investment. However some parents want access to more sport, music etc & some are driven by their dc being very unhappy etc and SEN of course.

I think if you can afford it relatively comfortably, it’s worth it for the experience. You can’t expect specific results, but the environment is conducive to learning, so gives children their best shot. Above the obvious small class sizes, there is very little disruption, there are specific teachers for different subjects and a massive focus on sport. Medals for first, second and third at sports day, not potted sports and a medal for everyone.

And no genderwoo nonsense, which is worth the fees alone for me, although I appreciate this is not choice most people can make. Nor should they have to.

But the child has to engage and learn; contrary to what some think, you can’t just pay for results. And the vast majority of UK private schools do not result in connections, they’re just nice schools to be in, then you leave.

The last private school I taught in specialised in security. It could not be approached on any side without being seen, and it had camera and secure locks all round. A lot of children came because they were at risk of kidnap by the "other" parent - so I guess for those families, it was how they chose to spend their money. The level of education was probably lower than the local state schools.

If private schools aren’t worth it compared to state schools, then I wonder what the hell they are doing with all the additional money they get.

I also wonder if people making comparisons have recent experience of the state sector. Right now it’s in a terrible mess and the lack of teachers and support staff is really biting. Will a tutor once a week make up for your kid not having a maths teacher?

They are paying for connections and a class advantage, to avoid their kids mixing with the hoi polloi. Which will likely lead to them having more money of course.

The ones who bleat on about pastoral care and positive influences - means less of that falls to the parents. Who can concentrate on the material stuff.

It depends on which private school and what the alternative schools would be. Extra tutoring is not enough to make up for what kids would experience in some schools. I've taught in a wide range of schools, including private boarding, private day, grammar and comprehensive. The best of the private schools I worked in would definitely be worth the money. The worst - no. I wouldn't have sent my child there, even it were free.

I'd rather spend the money on great holidays

Nothing is guaranteed. It ALL depends on the person and the school(s) involved in the choice.

You’d have to experience both
for me worth every penny would do it again in a heartbeat
totally no regrrats

If you are just comparing grades then private school is probably not worth it - but so far my DS has had an amazing decade in prep and independent schools. He plays 3 sports to a really high standard, is currently learning 2 new sports via his PE sessions. He participates in choirs, plays, music concerts, there are first-class facilities, small class sizes and specialist teachers for him. He thinks it's fine to be clever, and produce good work and the majority of the children all have great behavior and are super sociable.

We have a very happy, grounded, sociable son and his schooling has played a big part in that.
We are as much about the journey, as the destination.

From a financial perspective it doesn't seem worth it to me. I have heard people say that for some the connections they make and the 'polish' they gain helps them into jobs with vast salaries where it is financially worth it. However I suspect many of these people come from wealthy families in the first place so who knows?!

It was worth every penny for my son. My daughter has done incredibly well at state school.

DH went to a good private school, didn’t even complete any GCSE’s as he left (long story) but his private education has given him connections and something that isn’t quantifiable that enables him to walk in to any job and get it. People take notice of him.

That’s what you are buying.

Not all state schools are the same. It’s really about the marginal difference between the state schools in your area and the private schools you could use.

Maybe this school, if it specialised in snatching kids from the jaws of gangs, had some kind of foolproof Alcatraz-style anti-drugs security system, but I can think of several kids I know who did drugs and got into some unpleasant shit at boarding schools, including two very famous ones. Our neighbours' son (high court judge father, surgeon mother privileged upbringing) went straight from his famous school to prison for drug offences, got early release, reoffended within weeks, and got sent back. A friend sent his son to a famously remote, strict boarding school only to discover after a couple of years that local dealers were using drones to deliver stuff onto school property.

It's no guarantee.

For me, the 'return' is that DC have a great experience in school. It's worth it for that alone, even if it doesn't change their future trajectory!

I'd love to give DS a private education. I don't want him in a class with kids who couldn't give a toss about their education and the highlight of the day is how much trouble and distraction they can cause. I'd love for him to have pride in going to school and learning things and passing the exams with the best results he can get rather than a bunch of mediocre grades as the teachers spent more time policing the class than educating them.