To think private education probably isn't worth it?

I mean that was from the local school, not private. I was always very happy with the school, the results, the pastoral care, everything. Why would I have paid for private?

Depends what you want from it. A large % of Ds1's peers got 3 x A* and got into their top uni choice.

People don't all make decisions for the same reasons. So resulting salary could be a target for some, but for others, it could be networking, or a better environment than their child was experiencing in a state school, or because they can specialise in dance or music or something, or because the school can handle their child's SEN, or because it's just what one foes in this family, or... People make decisions for different reasons. For some people, the costs are worth it, for others, it won't be.

Well people who use them have been at great pains to assure us that they do not give an unfair advantage to their DC and that they use them only because they offer the best environment for their child's unique and specific needs. And its that they pay for, rather than buying them a big job. Because all the big jobs are allocated on merit and if their DC get one it will be due to their excellence not the money they've thrown at it. So presumably the salary at the end is not how they measure the worth?

It's not an investment with financial returns imo.

We're sending DS from state primary to a small, affordable private secondary as the local state is like throwing your child into the loins den. DS would be a huge target for bullies as he's ASD & I fear for his MH. I'd love to send him state, but it's just not safe.

The fancy schools don't buy you anything except fancy facilities. My relative's son went to one, scraped into uni (with tutoring) and moans about how much he hates working! Behaviour is pretty horrific too. Discovered he was given a partial uni scholarship from school (25% of one years fees!), with conditions attached to ensure he completed uni & their further ed stats stay high. He's looking to take a gap & can't. They literally only care about reputation.

It really depends on where you live. If you live somewhere like where I do, there is a choice of excellent schools, then it is not worth it. However in other areas, or if your child struggles in mainstream, the calculus changes.

Hello, thank you for this contribution. As someone who has been working in youth development (tutoring + early careers planning) for almost 20 years, I can tell you that most of my clients are in private schools. This does raise questions as to why, and whether tutoring alone should suffice without need of private school. There are many reasons that go into choosing schools. Most of the parents that choose private schools do so for cultural as much as for educational reasons: they anticipate that the students in private schools will be more like them and they might prefer that kind of social environment for their children. On the educational side itself, there are a few things to consider: top schools are excellent, but also demanding, so you have to consider whether your child can survive that kind of academic rigour. The culture is also usually competitive with a stronger emphasis on academic performance over holistic wellbeing, though this varies by school. The school/peer contacts tend to last for life and those have the potential to be lucrative because you're dealing with families that operate in the private sector. So to answer your question, you have to consider more than simply the educational content and method. Picking a school is about picking a society as much as an educator.

DCs state educated. DD expected to get all 8s and 9s for her GCSE results in August. Definitely no additional ROI for us

We chose private mainly for ds. It was a struggle for us during the early years but ds was a quiet shy boy who would have been lost in our local village school with lots of boisterous personalities, even though it was relatively small. It has been the best decision we ever made. Ds has been extremely well supported and is a kind, happy, self-confident young man. He has had a great education and should do well in his exams. Most importantly, he has friends from many other nationalities and backgrounds which he wouldn’t have experienced in the almost all-white local schools. The local schools would definitely not have provided a ‘more rounded environment’ as a pp said.

Dd didn’t have as great an experience in the same school which only indicates that education shouldn’t be a one size fits all approach. She is however thriving in an independent girls school. Her school is very small and supportive. The girls are very kind and are also from lots of different backgrounds. But the education is also second to none and the (non-selective) school has a reputation for helping girls achieve above and beyond expectations.

Their future career, though important as everyone has to earn a living, isn’t the be-all and end-all. My kids are happy, secure and had idyllic childhoods where they were allowed to grow up at their own pace. Dh and I both agree that money spent on their education has been some of the best we have ever spent. And we would still say that if they didn’t pass a single exam.

I think it’s probably worth it if your kids are pretty average academically or quiet.
If you have an extroverted charismatic straight 9s type kid then no

read, sign and pass on, very interesting whichever side of the fence ur on :

https://www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools/psf/share?cs_tk=An7Iy1Sp4okMBb7UcWYAAXicyyvNyQEABF8BvE7huEk9vVrX8Yg0wNRkMX8%3D&update_id=32672954&utm_campaign=d2ae502bce934219954a5d593e74cfe7&utm_content=initial_v0_7_1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=petition_update&utm_term=cs

labour abolished those assisted places (I had one too & can relate to what uve said) and now theyre taking that opportunity from bursaries & scholarships which will no doubt decrease, from other kids too. Keep them dumbed down and voting labour eh?

It just doesn’t make much sense to talk about “private schools” vs “state schools” as though it’s about rich parents vs average parents.

In plenty of parts of the country it’s more financially manageable to pay school fees than to pay for a house in catchment for a good school.

For plenty of parents their career is only possible with the long wrap around hours provided privately. Their only other option would be a nanny, which would be just as expensive.

Loads of us have scholarships, bursaries, and grandparents helping out with the costs.

And private schools vary massively in how much they cost and who they cater for.

It’s a much more complicated and diverse sector than people outside of it necessarily realise.

25% of those in private school are in the 4th income decile or below. Source : IFS.

25% of children at private school are in households where gross household income is less than around £65,000. That’s equivalent to 2 parents both earning less than the average gross wage.

It depends what you are interested in.

My kids are at a state school - Y10 doing really well, predicted 8s and 9s. Has nice friends, has a social life, has a part time job. Finds school busy and tiring but is coping well with it. Y7 is an outgoing type, has met lots of new friends and a girlfriend (!). Both good at taking responsibility for their work and both keen to achieve. They get really good study skills guidance and help with planning their work and I really don't get involved as they are very bought into it.

They went to the nursery dept of the local private boarding school (free 15 hours!) so we know a bit about it. It doesn't get such good results as our state school but facilities for everything are much better, the place is calmer, fewer kids and smaller class sizes.

In our school there is no way enough space for all 1400 kids to sit down and eat lunch. My take packed lunches and so far as I can work out they eat on a bench outside or wandering about. which I don't like much.

At the private school there is a proper dining room, sit down lunch with the staff and home cooked food. They used to go for lunch there in nursery and even at that age were being taught manners, offering to pass things etc. I really wish there was some of that at the state school.

Sports facilities are way better at the private school - neither of mine are particularly sporty so it doesn't matter too much, they just do it for fun/fitness, my youngest does sports out of school instead.

I think there is a greater range of children at the state school. Lots of bright ambitious ones but also plenty of kids with behaviour challenges, we do from time to time hear of X who set off the fire alarm again or Y who got in to a fight with Z.

I do think your private school fees perhaps buy a calmer experience with less children with additional behaviour needs, good facilities and a training in how to behave socially eg at a drinks party, hand around the drinks, if you meet someone, shake hands and look them in the eye.

Some private schools can be extremely pushy and competitive, though of course, not relaxed at all.

The parents of private school children may not be the richest 7% but they are most definitely not in the poorest 7%. In facts I'd venture to say there were none to very few in the bottom 50%* If you can pay for private school fees you are well off.

*considering people who pay for their own fees only as that's the subject of this thread
**median UK household income in 2022 was £35K

This. There is a huge spectrum between the most expensive boarding schools, where you're likely to be paying over £45000 a year without any extras, which is well above the country's average salary, just on school fees, and people who are scraping things together for a few thousand a term at a local day school.

What will happen (and will have always been happening in smaller numbers, because people's circumstances can change,) is there will be lots of people who can just manage even a substantial fees rise. Some may choose to move within the private sector, to a cheaper school, or from boarding to day. And some will choose to withdraw and go to the state sector, which is likely to hit smaller schools hardest, possibly in the lower fees end of the range, as this is where people are more likely to be struggling to meet the fees anyway. As a result, some schools will fail as the numbers become too small - some schools are already struggling after, and it won't take much to push them into unviability.

This will not affect areas equally, because private schools aren't distrusted evenly round the country, nor are good/bad state schools, plus every child has different needs, and suitable schools for that child may or may not be locally available. This means other factors will come into play for everyone's individual "is it worth it?" equation, such as travel times/costs, pastoral environment, extra curricular options, etc, etc.

That’s a false equivalency.
7% of kids are privately educated. This does not mean their parents are the richest 7%. Some of them certainly will be in the top centiles but there will also be those who are scrimping due to SEN, dreadful local schools etc and are much less wealthy than a lot of families living in good catchment areas.

[quote="Madamebrioche1"]Our son is showing signs of neurodiversity and currently having an assessment for autism.[/quote]
All imagine, past or present, any kid getting sent to ambitious private school with this not yet recognised at all. Which was what happened to me

It wouldn't have been worth it for my kids. Both went to state schools (neither were in the outstanding, oversubscribed category). The eldest got higher grades at A Level than the vast majority of his counterparts who went to academic privates. The youngest got almost straight 9s at GCSE. We've had to put the legwork in terms of extra curriculum and I'm the first to admit we're a middle class family in a leafy suburb.

I went to a private school on an assisted place and, as much as I despised the experience, it changed my life for the better and lifted me from a very impoverished background with a lot of adversity into the middle classes. So for me, the 'investment' Thatcher's government put into my education was very much worth it and I know a lot of assisted place kids say the same.

@taxguru this is the problem with state education kids involved in crimes should be sent to secure units so other kids aren't lead down that path. The states obsession with mixing kids from different backgrounds isn't helping anyone

Yes obviously I’m wealthy? And obviously I’m not trying to hide it given that I’m saying I can afford school fees! My point was that we are not from wealthy/posh backgrounds. We’ve done well financially (we can even afford school fees AND SkyTV which is apparently Rishi’s new measure of wealth). I’m pretty sure every good parent looks around at the options and chooses the best education they can for their kids

It depends on the local schools really. if you have great state schools with parents who are professionals and well connected but send their kids to state school like my dc's state school, then private education isn't worth it in our case especially when we are surrounded by mediocre private schools. I never thought my dc would be the right fit for a hot house type of school either and they point blank refuse kids with Sen anyway. My dc's state school have amazing Sen provision and operate like a private school apart from class sizes. So to me personally it depends on the local schools, your child's personality and what would be the right fit

I think it depends on the child and the school. My DH went to private school from the age of 7. His middle brother went from the age of 13. And his eldest brother went to state school. DH has a very well paid job 300+k, went to uni, has done a masters, is an over achiever, very driven. Middle brother has a degree, not motivated, has a mid level management role, earns 60K. Eldest brother didn't go to university, stayed in home town. Has a low skilled job, earns 40K.
Do I think schools made a difference to where they are now? Yes probably. Although DH has always been very clever and I suspect would have done just as well in state school.

Our son is showing signs of neurodiversity and currently having an assessment for autism. He was in a preschool with 30 kids in a class and could not cope, was totally overwhelmed. Now he is in a new private preschool with max 8 kids per class, loads of space, quieter and he is thriving

We have class sizes of under 10 at our state school.