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Need to go off work with stress - but don’t want it marked as stress

417 replies

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 09:56

Im sure this will set people off but I want to know if there’s a way of “faking” something that a doctor will sign me off for that isn’t stress.

I work in the civil service and I know people that have been signed off with stress thatve had their cards marked forever and later managed out of the business - obviously not for the stress reason though.

Im really struggling with everything at home at the moment and work is the only thing I can see that can give right now.

My 4 year son recently got an echp agreed but they’ve refused to name a specialist setting - they’re saying a non verbal, not potty trained child can cope in mainstream. It’s ridiculous - all the professionals agree except the local authority. So we’re taking them to tribunal - hopefully should be fast tracked as he’s due to start school in September.

I have an older child who has coped with everything really well but is acting out at the moment as me and his dad have been so occupied with sorting our other child and the EHCP.

I have an unwell parent who I’ve had to run to the hospital a lot.

I work 4 days a week in a busy managerial role in the civil service and I just can’t cope. I’m behind on things and I’m sure I’m going to drop a massive ball soon and really bugger something up.

I can’t sleep for the worry of it all.

Please help. I know people will say I should be signed off with stress but I’ve seen what happens to people that have been.

also - I don’t know how it works. Will they ring me repeatedly trying to get me back into work asap? I think that will stress me out even more ☹️

OP posts:
caringcarer · 13/06/2024 14:19

Q124 · 13/06/2024 10:51

I agree with this. Is there anything you can change long term? Being off work for a while and not changing anything won't help as you'll just go back to the same thing.

I agree. Your DH will have to help you by taking on more mental load. You could ask GP for a sick note for stress for a month but as others have stated having a child with SN is stressful and believe me that stress does not go away even if they go to a special school as my foster son did. Could you change jobs to something needing less energy/concentration or go part time maybe 30 hours a week? That would give you a bit of breathing space. Your MH is important. Could your DH take on a few more hours each week so you could cut back your hours for a year?

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 14:13

Ponche · 13/06/2024 14:11

I don’t have any advice re your work situation, but just wanted to say I understand how stressful, worrying and all-consuming it can be raising a child with additional needs and then managing the EHCP process on top of that as well. My DD is a year below your DS but also non-verbal, not yet potty trained and awaiting an ASD assessment.

I started the EHCP process earlier this year and it’s been extremely difficult and has drained all my time and money. If I’m not doing something related to the EHCP, then I’m thinking about it. Endless time wasted chasing the council, going round in circles on the phone, emails being ignored. Just so your child gets the basic right to an education.

Fighting for endless referrals and then sitting on endless waiting lists. And the immense worry for your child’s future. It’s so draining.

I work part-time but my job is not a high pressure one and so I can’t imagine the juggle you have. But I understand the worry as my DD will most likely also end up in mainstream next year as well.

Exactly this. Awful isn’t it.

We started the process early too and they’ve delayed, lied, ignored us.

It should be a national scandal but unless people have children with disabilities and SEN they don’t care in the slightest

OP posts:
Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 14:11

Sdpbody · 13/06/2024 14:05

Realistically, if your youngest does end up at a mainstream school, you will be called frequently to come and get him. What are your long term plans for managing this.

I understand that this is shit, but you have to think in the long term.

Why do you think we’re going to tribunal?

It won’t be right for him and dreadfully unfair on him and other children in his class.

And Because we can’t manage this. I will have to quit work. I know people that this has happened to.

very helpful to me to reiterate this though. Perhaps you now understand why I can’t sleep for the worry of it

OP posts:
Ponche · 13/06/2024 14:11

I don’t have any advice re your work situation, but just wanted to say I understand how stressful, worrying and all-consuming it can be raising a child with additional needs and then managing the EHCP process on top of that as well. My DD is a year below your DS but also non-verbal, not yet potty trained and awaiting an ASD assessment.

I started the EHCP process earlier this year and it’s been extremely difficult and has drained all my time and money. If I’m not doing something related to the EHCP, then I’m thinking about it. Endless time wasted chasing the council, going round in circles on the phone, emails being ignored. Just so your child gets the basic right to an education.

Fighting for endless referrals and then sitting on endless waiting lists. And the immense worry for your child’s future. It’s so draining.

I work part-time but my job is not a high pressure one and so I can’t imagine the juggle you have. But I understand the worry as my DD will most likely also end up in mainstream next year as well.

Clarefromwork · 13/06/2024 14:08

People are giving advice based on their own situations and not reading what op has put.

Could you go off sick but join a union incase they do try anything funny further down the line?

Also check if you have a sabbatical policy as where I work you get 40% of pay. (Although that may not be enough if they do offer it )

Hope things get better for you, it sounds really tough

Sdpbody · 13/06/2024 14:05

Realistically, if your youngest does end up at a mainstream school, you will be called frequently to come and get him. What are your long term plans for managing this.

I understand that this is shit, but you have to think in the long term.

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 14:03

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 14:01

Do you're OK with people taking sick leave when, exactly?

Grieving a parent or a child?
Broken leg?
Cancer treatment?
D&V?

None are work related injuries or illnesses. And that is not what sick leave is restricted to.

Snap 🤣

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 14:02

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

Hmm, I don’t disagree re taking the piss in setting it to achieve 6 months sick pay via deception…if that applies

BUT , I think you’re confusing sick pay and causes related to work. Almost ALL sick leave causes are not related to work 🤦🏼‍♀️ that includes stress, depression , and even the most common cause of sick leave musculoskeletal- by your argument why would a person why ripped a tendon or broken an ankle on their ski holiday Be entitled to sick pay…what about the person who finds out they’re loved one is dying, what about the smoker with lung cancers in a company that bans smoking entirely

. Sick pay is there for whatever reasons are for illness…as long as that legitimate and the individual is trying to do their part in getting better.

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 14:01

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

Do you're OK with people taking sick leave when, exactly?

Grieving a parent or a child?
Broken leg?
Cancer treatment?
D&V?

None are work related injuries or illnesses. And that is not what sick leave is restricted to.

PeonySeasons · 13/06/2024 13:59

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:10

I would also recommend being honest op. I think the CS are more likely to just want to manage out anyone with high sickness % rather than MH conditions, so you'd likely be in the same boat.

However. If you really, really wanted it to be something physical...headaches. You'd need to go the whole hog though. Call in sick for two days, tell them you have the most awful headache. Go back for two days. Call in sick again with the same. Go see a GP, describe all the symptoms of cluster headaches you've experienced over a couple of weeks (without appearing to know what CH are) but add in that you've been so worried about it you've not been sleeping, are exhausted, now can't concentrate, you're worried about making mistakes in work and having to drive and you're experiencing anxiety. The liklihood is that GP will sign you off for a couple of weeks (push for a month) with primary cause of headache...and will give you meds, possibly order other tests. Don't take them, see the GP again after a few weeks, say they stopped temporarily but are now back with a vengeance. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

Cluster headaches are literally that...you can get a cluster of them for x weeks or months then they just stop. Sometimes for years or forever. Very hard to prove, diagnose and treat. It's not uncommon to still be searching for a medication or treatment that works when the cluster ends after X months and you no longer need the treatment.

Do research into CH and if you feel the need, I'd do that. But you need to be able to stone cold lie about it which not everyone is capable of.

**Edited to add my sympathy and best wishes op. Ignore the righteous, unempathetic holier than thou posters. What you're experiencing is stress and burnout, it's real and fucking miserable and sometimes all you need is time to breathe. And yes, work is the best thing to give if you have full sick pay.

Edited

Again, fuck off telling people to fake migraine and in this case, cluster headache. Cluster headache is known as the suicide headache for a reason (ask me how I know!).

Lying minimises the experiences of those of with these conditions and makes it so much harder for us to be taken seriously. STOP IT!

ilovesooty · 13/06/2024 13:58

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:15

Thank you for this.

I think that after considering everything I need to be honest with work and perhaps I could reduce my workload a bit or take away a few of my direct reports.

Im a project manager and have way too many on right now.

And in reality you’re right - I won’t be able to lie about this.

Have you considered self referring to Mental Health Access to Work? They would support you to approach your manager to draw up a wellbeing support plan.

Noseyoldcow · 13/06/2024 13:57

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

You're supportive, aren't you? OP isn't asking to bum around on sick leave as long as she can, she just wants a bit of time to sort out her genuine stress and exhaustion to rests and hopefully sort out her home problems. She understandably doesn't want sick leave due to stress on her personnel record.
I think OP, you should discuss with your doctor. He/she may be able to suggest what to sign you off with other than stress. For example, when I was first pregnant years ago and didn't want to tell work yet but was being affected with all day nausea, he signed me off for a week with gastric problems.

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:50

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

This is exactly the sort of reason I thought I had to lie.

Ive worked for the CS for 18 years - joined the grad scheme out of uni and have only taken off my maternity leave and a few days here and there for being unwell that entire time.

I love my job and don’t want to have to leave.

People like you are the reason I probably will have to.

I sincerely hope nothing happens to you to impact your health while you’re working.

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 13/06/2024 13:49

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 11:34

I actually really love my job, it’s important for me and my mental health and I really like my colleagues.

I don’t want to leave. But I just can’t do everything right now

Get the doctor to put family stress on the fit note.

TheUndoing · 13/06/2024 13:48

I’m a civil servant, and I appreciate you are having a hard time, but I do think this is a bit of a piss take. It’s not the tax payers responsibility to provide you with 6 months on full pay because of stress that has nothing to do with work.

siameselife · 13/06/2024 13:40

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 13:29

I’ve managed teams for a long time with all sorts of long term sickness

first thing is you will need to see a GP anyway. The GP is likely to only sign you off for 2 weeks at a time, and will only do this if they feel it is a legitimate case of stress symptoms or whatever medical condition they think it is likely to be. Almost certainly they will then talk to you about getting help for your mental well-being- either a course of antidepressants, getting you on list for counselling , or regular exercise in terms of walking . They’ll talk to you about reasons for the stress, as in itself it’s not an illness as such, but a symptom, and what you can do to get support you need. You need to be up front and truthful . The bottom line is if youfeel you can’t cope you need to address anyway, otherwise you’ll end up dropping out of working entirely

you also need to know that general medical guidance has long been the sooner people go back into the normal daily routines like work, the better. Signing someone off for 6 months increases the likelihood of them never being able to deal with their previous life. It is all about how NHS support you in developing mental resilience

The Gp may put initial 2 weeks down to something else if you express concerns. But they probably won’t. Sick notes (or wellness notes as they’re now referred to) are legal documents - so whatever is diagnosis will normally go down

you submit this to work. BUT the cause of your illness is medically confidential so would normally not be sent to your manager unless small company. More likely to HR or a subcontracted out service. No one will do anything with it other than set up claim for sick leave at that stage - UNLESS you have a history of absenteeism. Or unless it specifically puts down a work related cause.

once you then go back to GP for an extension, your company may well ask you to talk to an occupational health person or a GP or their choosing to do an independent assessment of your health and reason for absence. The longer you are signed off (in normally 2 week extensions) the more likely that will become. You I’ll be asked if you are willing to have the assessment shared with HR and your line manager. HR and your line manager can ask spepcifc question for the assessor to ask you.

normally, even where stress or mental health issues are involved, people agree that this info can be shared to a certain degree with management. If for instance, stress is not caused by work but another factor - management will be told it is not work related stress but not the cause of the stress typically.

The assessment will also be looking carefully at how you are “helping yourself”: are you in queue for therapy (can you go private maybe?), are you taking meds, are you finding solutions to ease your stress like getting home help etc etc.

they’ll also be talking to you about reasonable adjustments. In most reputable companies they’ll want to try to get you back asap but with reduced hours over phased return.

if work is a cause of stress, or contributing factor, then HSE law means company must do risk assessment. That is why they want to know. If they don’t , and they don’t do risk assessment it can all get very messy legally for both of you.

most companies do not look kindly on people who do not agree to a independent assessment when they’re claiming sock leave pay. It send the spidery senses into full alert as why would you not cooperate if a legitimate illness? Similarly not giving consent to share the basic medical diagnosis with HR tends to be a bit frowned on…again given it’s not going to be passed on or kept why the concerns?

being signed off work for 6 months because that’s how long your sick pay lasts, is not a solution, OP. No GP is going to sign you off for that in one, two or even 3 hits. No company is going to agree to paying that without wanting to do their own assessment because of what it costs them. And, most importantly it will NOT solve your issues. People being signed off for 6months, or even a full month in one hit, is usually reserved for where there is a known physical condition that has a known recovery time. As stress is a symptom of something else, that’s going to make it even more difficult to predict, it will entirely depend on causes, treatments and circumstances.

You have specific issue that are causing you stress. You are overloaded, and you MUST to reduce your load. You need to strictly figure out what you personally cannot delegate, and then delegate very thing else or just stop it. You can do this for 1 month and see how you get on. I think seeing GP and talking through how you feel and maybe be signed off for 2 weeks may just be able to get you some respite mentally, and fix the underlying issues. But there aren’t magic fairies that’ll fix this…and stopping work on extended sick leave won’t fix it either. You could make your overall mental health worse in fact.

You have to do something to change what you can control.

I think this is very sensible balanced advice OP.

Locutus2000 · 13/06/2024 13:34

OP, I had a lot of time off with stress when I was in the public sector. My wonderful GP at the time would sign me off with 'Neurasthenia' which I never had questioned.

It is technically correct, sounds like a 'proper' diagnosis but provides little to go on.

Invisimamma · 13/06/2024 13:32

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:19

Thank you. This is so kind.

Its made me teary that some people are so empathetic 🥹

I had a really hard year last year, I had to take some time out and had 3 months off sick, my partner also had 5 months while his parent was dying.

If it wasn't for a few amazing people lifting me up and checking-in on me through that time I wouldn't have got through it. The break and pressing the reset button was vital.

I don't know if it's true but there's a saying about mummy polar bears eating first and leaving the scraps for the babies, because the little polar bears won't survive if their mum isn't fit and able to hunt and caren for them 🥹. There's something in that.

I've made a few changes and in a better place. Things are not perfect, but I'm better equipped to deal with life now. Please go to the doctor and get that sick line before you burn out entirely.

Dartwarbler · 13/06/2024 13:29

I’ve managed teams for a long time with all sorts of long term sickness

first thing is you will need to see a GP anyway. The GP is likely to only sign you off for 2 weeks at a time, and will only do this if they feel it is a legitimate case of stress symptoms or whatever medical condition they think it is likely to be. Almost certainly they will then talk to you about getting help for your mental well-being- either a course of antidepressants, getting you on list for counselling , or regular exercise in terms of walking . They’ll talk to you about reasons for the stress, as in itself it’s not an illness as such, but a symptom, and what you can do to get support you need. You need to be up front and truthful . The bottom line is if youfeel you can’t cope you need to address anyway, otherwise you’ll end up dropping out of working entirely

you also need to know that general medical guidance has long been the sooner people go back into the normal daily routines like work, the better. Signing someone off for 6 months increases the likelihood of them never being able to deal with their previous life. It is all about how NHS support you in developing mental resilience

The Gp may put initial 2 weeks down to something else if you express concerns. But they probably won’t. Sick notes (or wellness notes as they’re now referred to) are legal documents - so whatever is diagnosis will normally go down

you submit this to work. BUT the cause of your illness is medically confidential so would normally not be sent to your manager unless small company. More likely to HR or a subcontracted out service. No one will do anything with it other than set up claim for sick leave at that stage - UNLESS you have a history of absenteeism. Or unless it specifically puts down a work related cause.

once you then go back to GP for an extension, your company may well ask you to talk to an occupational health person or a GP or their choosing to do an independent assessment of your health and reason for absence. The longer you are signed off (in normally 2 week extensions) the more likely that will become. You I’ll be asked if you are willing to have the assessment shared with HR and your line manager. HR and your line manager can ask spepcifc question for the assessor to ask you.

normally, even where stress or mental health issues are involved, people agree that this info can be shared to a certain degree with management. If for instance, stress is not caused by work but another factor - management will be told it is not work related stress but not the cause of the stress typically.

The assessment will also be looking carefully at how you are “helping yourself”: are you in queue for therapy (can you go private maybe?), are you taking meds, are you finding solutions to ease your stress like getting home help etc etc.

they’ll also be talking to you about reasonable adjustments. In most reputable companies they’ll want to try to get you back asap but with reduced hours over phased return.

if work is a cause of stress, or contributing factor, then HSE law means company must do risk assessment. That is why they want to know. If they don’t , and they don’t do risk assessment it can all get very messy legally for both of you.

most companies do not look kindly on people who do not agree to a independent assessment when they’re claiming sock leave pay. It send the spidery senses into full alert as why would you not cooperate if a legitimate illness? Similarly not giving consent to share the basic medical diagnosis with HR tends to be a bit frowned on…again given it’s not going to be passed on or kept why the concerns?

being signed off work for 6 months because that’s how long your sick pay lasts, is not a solution, OP. No GP is going to sign you off for that in one, two or even 3 hits. No company is going to agree to paying that without wanting to do their own assessment because of what it costs them. And, most importantly it will NOT solve your issues. People being signed off for 6months, or even a full month in one hit, is usually reserved for where there is a known physical condition that has a known recovery time. As stress is a symptom of something else, that’s going to make it even more difficult to predict, it will entirely depend on causes, treatments and circumstances.

You have specific issue that are causing you stress. You are overloaded, and you MUST to reduce your load. You need to strictly figure out what you personally cannot delegate, and then delegate very thing else or just stop it. You can do this for 1 month and see how you get on. I think seeing GP and talking through how you feel and maybe be signed off for 2 weeks may just be able to get you some respite mentally, and fix the underlying issues. But there aren’t magic fairies that’ll fix this…and stopping work on extended sick leave won’t fix it either. You could make your overall mental health worse in fact.

You have to do something to change what you can control.

Mummaluma · 13/06/2024 13:28

Talk to your GP. Mine was happy to discuss wording once he was satisfied I was genuinely unwell.

Bananafree · 13/06/2024 13:27

OP, glad you’ve decided to be honest and I hope you get all the time off that you need and I can see you’ve tried to be considerate.

to the posters saying other people’s workload isn’t OP’s concern you’re part of the problem. There is a woman in my team who has been off sick 3-6 months every single year since I’ve been in this role and she was even promoted last year and lasted about 4 months before she went off sick again .

It does impact the team, she shouldn’t have went for the promotion last year IMO because now her absence affects the team even more as people at her grade do a lot more work so she’s leaving a massive gap.

That’s not to say people shouldn't get signed off with stress or shouldn’t ever go for promotion opportunities if they’ve been signed off, because they should if that’s what’s needed. But it’s also common decency to stop and consider others too while you’re making your decision while also prioritising yourself of course.

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:25

Big shout out to all us migraines sufferers out there that our symptoms are so easily faked. No wonder no one takes the situation seriously

Not sure why you've quoted my post in this @Jazzjazzyjulez, I made no mention of migraines, only Cluster headaches. Which I would have imagined you'd be aware is a totally different headache disorder.

And yes, any internal medical problem - especially pain - is very easy to fake (to the point of invasive tests or treatments anyway). Is that news to you?

noctilucentcloud · 13/06/2024 13:21

CertainAppealToIt · 13/06/2024 13:10

I would also recommend being honest op. I think the CS are more likely to just want to manage out anyone with high sickness % rather than MH conditions, so you'd likely be in the same boat.

However. If you really, really wanted it to be something physical...headaches. You'd need to go the whole hog though. Call in sick for two days, tell them you have the most awful headache. Go back for two days. Call in sick again with the same. Go see a GP, describe all the symptoms of cluster headaches you've experienced over a couple of weeks (without appearing to know what CH are) but add in that you've been so worried about it you've not been sleeping, are exhausted, now can't concentrate, you're worried about making mistakes in work and having to drive and you're experiencing anxiety. The liklihood is that GP will sign you off for a couple of weeks (push for a month) with primary cause of headache...and will give you meds, possibly order other tests. Don't take them, see the GP again after a few weeks, say they stopped temporarily but are now back with a vengeance. Rinse and repeat as long as you can.

Cluster headaches are literally that...you can get a cluster of them for x weeks or months then they just stop. Sometimes for years or forever. Very hard to prove, diagnose and treat. It's not uncommon to still be searching for a medication or treatment that works when the cluster ends after X months and you no longer need the treatment.

Do research into CH and if you feel the need, I'd do that. But you need to be able to stone cold lie about it which not everyone is capable of.

**Edited to add my sympathy and best wishes op. Ignore the righteous, unempathetic holier than thou posters. What you're experiencing is stress and burnout, it's real and fucking miserable and sometimes all you need is time to breathe. And yes, work is the best thing to give if you have full sick pay.

Edited

That's an awful idea. You're taking up NHS time that's not needed, even if you don't turn up for tests that is a wasted appointment. All that does is make waiting lists longer and waste money.

OP I think being honest is the way to go, if you are not honest with your GP (and work) then things can't improve.

nokidshere · 13/06/2024 13:21

I don't know what the problem is? You are stressed, understandably in your situation, you need time off, you get paid. All this angst about the wording on the sick note just adds to your stress. Get the sick note and take the time.

Marshallscrossing · 13/06/2024 13:19

Invisimamma · 13/06/2024 13:17

Take the time off op. Ask the doctor to write 'family stress' not 'work related stress.' your card shouldn't be marked for this, it's usually the people who can't cope with workplace demands that it adversely affects. Paid sick leave is one of your benefits, use it!

People are being unduly harsh here, you're having a really hard time. It's okay to take some time out and focus on yourself and your family for a little while.

Do a few nice things for yourself and take your eldest out of school for a few days while your youngest is cared for and do some special things with them. Put some things in place for your parents, use the time to get on top of your house, long walks, whatever it is that you need to do. It will make the world of difference.

This is temporary. It will get better.

Thank you. This is so kind.

Its made me teary that some people are so empathetic 🥹

OP posts: