VAT on private health

It's basically the same argument as taxing privately provided education. So we shouldn't be surprised to see that people are now making that argument, this is the stated policy of the party of the people.

Generally taxing health care and education aren't things civilized countries do, but go UK I guess.

Well private schools need to think about that. The fees have risen far far above inflation pushing it out of the reach of so many and then you have a small sliver of the population in the support. They have themselves to blame. It wasn't always so

You make some interesting points. VAT on school fees is popular because most people won’t be paying it. VAT on private medicine seems less popular (at least on this thread) because more people would have to pay it. If Labour were proposing to add VAT on all private education ie schools, tutoring, holiday courses, universities - all of which people pay for for their own children, to benefit/advance their own children, but are not affordable to everyone - I very much doubt it would be so popular. It seems people are in favour of extra taxes on other people. And if someone can afford something that I can’t, it’s because they’re “rich” and therefore it’s only fair that they should pay more tax etc etc (I think it was Dan Neidle, tax expert, who shared some research on taxes which showed a majority said they were prepared to pay more tax, but when asked how much more, most people said £25 or less per year!!!)

The harsh fact is that we all need to pay a lot more tax because all the public services - NHS, schools, roads, you name it - need more money. But none of our politicians are addressing this. Whoever is in power after the election is going to have to massively put up taxes.

This - in a nutshell

Using private healthcare is in reach of more people than private education. Lots of people have medical insurance through work and even more have paid for one off or a series of appointments for a particular health issue. So therefore they tell themselves it’s different and it’s ok. No it’s not different because it’s ‘lifesaving’, it’s often not.

I think if private schooling was in their reach, many of these people would use that to, and probably not be in favour of paying more for it. But whilst it remains out of their reach, this policy will remain a vote winner for Starmer because of people’s spite.

My kids were/are at state school, but I don’t agree with the VAT on private schools because I don’t think it’ll benefit anyone and has the strong potential to make things worse.

I believe it’s actually part of the complex negotiations that were made with the medical profession when the NHS was founded. Consultants were “allowed” to still do lucrative private work alongside their work in the NHS. If the govt of the day hadn’t allowed this, the NHS wouldn’t have had enough staff. The Drs union (BMA?) is very very powerful and vocal. I doubt very much that the govt could force NHS consultants to work exclusively for the NHS. (I don’t think you can force anyone to work in a particular place - if all private schools closed tomorrow, many of the teachers would not move across into the state sector, that’s a fantasy. If they wanted to work in the state sector they would do already. Similarly with consultants.)

You just have to look at how Keir Starmer has backed off reimposing the cap on pension funds - Jeremy Hunt lifted this for all workers, but it was specifically to address the problem that NHS consultants were retiring early/refusing extra shifts, because otherwise they got a heavy pension penalty. Labour would have faced exactly the same problem if they reimposed the cap and Drs had been quite vocal about this. Starmer thgt he cld carve out a special tax deal just for higher paid NHS staff and public sector workers but has clearly discovered that that’s not workable.

I’ve gone down a bit of a side issue, but my main point is that I don’t think VAT on private health care as a 1st step to abolishing private health care will find any support in the medical profession and it would be a brave politician who took that on. Yes, the arguments you can make are the same as for VAT on private school fees - so if you are for/against one you should, logically, be for/against the other - but a lot of powerful people in the NHS also want a thriving private sector.

The current waitlist is so huge, I am not convinced those using private healthcare decanting to the NHS would make that much of a difference. They should have at it. The system needs deep reform and the current solutions being put forward is more of the same. No new ideas

I suspect it is because - even with more money everyone knows more people need to pay more individually to use the NHS to manage demand. It needs to happen - it is just a matter of when and how.
VAT on private healthcare may actually be a good way to start the conversation of paying towards healthcare like in the Australian model

What about the family whose child needs the same operation but don’t have a property to remortgage? They might think your private healthcare is a luxury and ought to be taxed? So that the money can go to the NHS?

I can see private healthcare being next in the firing line for VAT.

So many people need to use means it would bring in a good amount and could mean they could use the money to pay for the longest waiting lists for the poorest people to be cleared using the same system. Quite neat and equitable really.

I don't think it's the same at all.
Moat people in private education could get a place at a state school. They have a choice and they perceive private school to be higher quality but they would not be missing education otherwise
.
Completely different to someone being told there is a 2yr waiting list for this operation by Mr consultant X....or you can pay and still have your operation by Mr consultant X, but in 2 weeks.

Neither is right in my opinion but they are differentin terms of reliance and desperation. And I would be fine with VAT on private health care...but would prefer a level playing field for all with no private provision.
I would guess VAT would hit insurance providers and most insurance is provided by employers.

This. As someone who has utilised both private healthcare and private schooling for her DD only one of these was a choice. We were literally forced into remortgaging our home to pay for £45k of private surgery.

Starmer saying that he would never use private healthcare just shows what a disingenuous fraud he is.

A much more credible thing to say would have, yes I would use it to help me and my family because no one should ever put their family through unnecessary suffering if you can afford it. But I would do X, Y, Z for those who don’t have a choice.

This guy is going to be a disaster for chi’s country. If indeed it is possible to be worse than the incumbents.

There is a big difference

It is FAR more unfair that some people can pay to end their child’s pain quicker, and some can’t

than that some people can pay to send their child to private school, and some can’t

if you want to attack inequality, surely you’d go after private healthcare first

Already happening and they plan to turbo charge this. This will only undermine local hospitals as is already happening in some areas but good for us private medics as there is more money to be made. It is totally the wrong policy and both parties don't get it

I work in the NHS & have done for years. I really hope that private healthcare doesn't become more expensive than it already is. It's not really comparable with schooling, there are lots of low income people paying for private healthcare now as the 2 year waiting lists for certain NHS appointments is just too much. The wait for an URGENT Cardiology appointment at my local hospital is 12 months plus.

Plenty of people might not like the state school offered but they will at least be offered a place. With health it is more pay for an appointment or have no appointment.

Yes, Starmer disagrees with private healthcare and wouldn’t use it, but he’s relying on it to clear the NHS backlog……

For many who use private healthcare - it is not life and death. The most frequently used private services are cataract surgery, orthopaedic procedures, hernias and surveillance procedures like colonoscopies. Life and death stuff is still mostly NHS (and I would say remains best there).

People should get a tax break for going private and frankly people should pay a fee for missing appointments without solid reason. The NHS needs to get its act together and needs more funding but the public also need to be far more responsible with their health and NHS use

Aren’t Labour planning to use private healthcare to sort out waiting lists?

Then you would have an even worse staffing retention issue in the NHS

Exactly this 💯
Honestly the comparison is ridiculous

People use healthcare to get out of chronic pain, get better, save their children's lives etc.
However you wont die if your child goes to a normal school like 93% of the population.
I think it's ridiculous to compare schools with healthcare

LOL -really, "rich people" use private HC??

I've met many clients that were living in rented places, worked in retail ie low wages use private HC as they were desprate

Iff you have a decent job, at times private HC is part of your works papackage

Or they'd move abroad?