VAT on private health

By calling a general election now a number of public sector pay rise decisions are currently on hold eg teachers

It is hardly a surprise there was going to be an election this year and people have been speculating on the date for months. If Labour were taken by surprised then they have no business running the country.

I know - I work in private healthcare too. The vast majority of our surgeons work privately alongside their NHS practice but there is a small minority trickling in (usually only those who can afford to take a bit of a pay cut and are sick of working in dire NHS conditions) who work solely privately.

Oh dear. Economic illiteracy summed up in one sentence.

Not quite. For example: You would like my gall bladder taken out. Most people don't care when or where as long as it is safe. So Professor Bloggs works 3 days a week in the NHS and can whip it out for you in 10 months time. He also runs a thriving private practice and can take it out for you in his private practice in 2 weeks.

You get to jump the 'waiting for a gallbladder' queue. Yes - the NHS list and private list are different but the target we are all waiting for is the same thing ( a particular procedure/intervention/opinion).

Same as private school/state schools - different establishments but we are all trying to get an education for our kids.

Of course people who can may will leave.

We ve made travel and trade harder with 27 other countries, then add in our economic woes and people will leave.

I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing @Foxesandsquirrels. I was musing on the fact that you wouldn't want to drive people away from professionally provided, safe, evidence-backed healthcare by making them pay at the point of use and/or rationing it hugely by waiting lists and/or taxing private healthcare to an undue extent.

Because when people neglect their health or try DIY or cheap/unlicensed/unregulated solutions, there can be terrible consequences.

Education is of course also a public good but good quality education (or at least, information) can be accessed for free.

That's a separate issue to whether people have the cultural capital/time/motivation to access it.

I think it's more important not to restrict access to healthcare, because of the adverse consequences.

Similar to paying for a Fast pass at Disney - except it is your health.

It is like waiting for a ride at Disney and complaining that someone joining a short queue at Alton Towers is jumping your Disney queue.

Exactly, all you really get is more admin as there are more organisations involved.

The UK spends less per head of population than European counter parts and we charge the highest tuition fees too.

Bottom line is we want Euro healthcare but are not prepared to pay for it, same as for our roads.

I worked in the NHS for almost 40 years…I also know how private health care works.

Oh I quite agree the UK is a piss poor place for SME entrepreneurs. Which may explain why it attracts the bigger investors.

Don't try and even dare to image to dream to think to tell me that the UK is poor. It must certain is not. There are certain areas of London that are more wealthy than some small countries.

I repeat we do not have a lack of wealth. We have an inequality of wealth.

So your treatment is for something the NHS does not offer?

Most private care is for cataract surgery, orthopaedic procedures and scans. Things that are usually delivered by the NHS but now have long wait lists. Accessing private care means you access the same care (with nice teas and biscuits) faster and sometimes from the same consultant you would have seen on the NHS but working in their non-NHS time

But I’m not in the NHS queue…I wouldn’t have been referred to the NHS.

I'm not the one making these arguments! I think taxing ill people is nuts, frankly. I'm very sorry for your situation. I hope your DD gets the medical help she needs.

You’re right - I can’t really afford it but our NHS has become non-existent to the point that it has become a ‘choice’ of watch my DD suffer in pain on endless waiting lists or pay out every month for private health insurance. Feel better now?

Sadly it does. Look at numbers of start-ups compared to the US proportionate to the population, number of thriving industries, GDP growth over 20-25 years....any metric you like

Well technically- if you pay, you get to join a very short queue. So for those who think that is not fair - it is queue jumping to an extent. Similar to paying for a Fast pass at Disney - except it is your health.

Or, if that argument doesn't work:
If you can't afford the VAT rise, you couldn't really afford it in the first place. You should have planned better.

That argument is shot down for school fees!
They would say - if you can afford £350 a month, you can afford £420.
Why should you get better access to care than the vast majority?
You're not helping the NHS by alleviating pressure, but causing more problems by facilities/staff being directed to deliver private care, like teachers working in private schools who could be filing state school vacancies.......

Why is this so hard for people to understand!!! No-one is ‘queue jumping’ either! Why does the same old rubbish get trotted out on here? It’s so tedious.

The UK doesn't have a problem with wealth creation. If it did you wouldn't have it stuffed to the gills with investors.

The perennial problem is in wealth distribution.

Starmer may get it after all - he just tweeted this...