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A permanent job has no security?

31 replies

spanieleyes22 · 12/06/2024 18:24

Just that really. I was so happy to land a permanent job 2 years ago. But have just heard they are making 7 out of 8 of us redundant. We all have to compete for a job. So 1 out of the 8 in my team will be successful. The rest of us will be sacked. I don't even know who will do all the work when we are gone. The workload will be the same. They are talking about hiring new people then. How is it even legal.

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Littleacornnut · 14/06/2024 20:18

People really have no idea what notice period you’d have. It depends on your company is it a big company on the ftse?

i worked for a big highstreet bank and our notice period was 4 months despite our contractual notice being 1 month. We also had a settlement that was 6 weeks pay (for those under 2 years) above that it was 4 weeks pay for every 1 year of service. There was Also a 2 month consultation period.

there are legal minimums for certain volumes?

is your company named after a mythical bird? This sounds v similar to situation a few friends have, date too.

if it were me, I’d not panic and I’d start interviewing and state you’re at risk of redundancy and no details are available yet, and hopefully you’ll secure something before and then you can get made redundant with a settlement

RedPony1 · 13/06/2024 12:24

spanieleyes22 · 13/06/2024 11:04

That's terrible @Howdoidoit100 .

I think there are a lot of unseen and unintended consequences from
brexit and the new visa rules that are coming in that are affecting my place. It's unprecedented to have this many redundancies

I've been part of and run plenty of redundancy consultations over the years, waaaay before Brexit. Most of them were big restructures with big losses. Sometimes with work going overseas (India) and sometimes just a big cut of heads in general.

Get your ducks in a row, register for agency's and move on in my experience

spanieleyes22 · 13/06/2024 11:04

Howdoidoit100 · 13/06/2024 10:56

I'm in the same position. Our team of 20 is going down to 5. We don't know which 5 get to keep their jobs. The work will be done by a cheaper workforce overseas. I've been loyal to the company for 25 years.

That's terrible @Howdoidoit100 .

I think there are a lot of unseen and unintended consequences from
brexit and the new visa rules that are coming in that are affecting my place. It's unprecedented to have this many redundancies

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spanieleyes22 · 13/06/2024 11:02

C0untBinFace · 13/06/2024 10:31

Surely you don’t want to stay there! Keep job searching

The only reason I want to stay is that I've done a lot of negotiating and finally have a lovely set up where I only have to go in twice a week and am flexible on times on another day which really fits in with my kids and home life and also the team I'm in have been very nice and it's been a very supportive atmosphere to work with no gossiping or mean ness. It took me I think 4 job applications and rejections before I landed this job. I'm just trying to build up resilience to start that process again. It's really hard as I feel so anxious .

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Howdoidoit100 · 13/06/2024 10:56

I'm in the same position. Our team of 20 is going down to 5. We don't know which 5 get to keep their jobs. The work will be done by a cheaper workforce overseas. I've been loyal to the company for 25 years.

ComtesseDeSpair · 13/06/2024 10:37

How large is your company? Often when companies are restructuring and making redundancies they will have a programme in place for colleagues at risk to access e.g. support with CV writing, interview techniques and so on. Ask if anything like that will be available to you.

Sometimes the earlier stages of redundancy situations really are a case of management not being entirely sure what’s going to pan out. They may pick up another huge client and not have to lose as many positions as they initially thought; the business may be bought and everyone TUPEed over. They’ve given you plenty of advance notice and it doesn’t sound as though they’re going to give you your month’s notice until they have a firmer idea of things - else they’d have already done so to tie up an easy loose end.

C0untBinFace · 13/06/2024 10:31

Surely you don’t want to stay there! Keep job searching

spanieleyes22 · 13/06/2024 10:28

Thanks @MrJollyLivesNextDoor The summer is pretty quiet for jobs but I am looking.

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MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 13/06/2024 09:03

Start applying for other jobs now

At least you have until September so that gives you a few months

Good luck

HandsDown84 · 13/06/2024 08:57

I'm sorry, OP. Yes, you would be given your contractual notice period of a month. Unfortunately you wouldn't qualify for statutory redundancy pay under 2 years.

Unless you want the one job available I'd second applying elsewhere.

spanieleyes22 · 13/06/2024 08:39

Bump

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spanieleyes22 · 12/06/2024 23:08

They won't tell us how many people are being made redundant but say that we will be told by September. They said they don't know how we will be judged for the jobs that remain. A lot of questions asked were answered by they don't know. Should I assume I will be let go. I'm so sad. So worried. It looks like they won't give me anything I've just read their redundancy notes. So does that mean I could just get a months notice. Like what I have to give them. I can't stop crying. Just so stressed: I had a massive panic attack after the meeting and embarrassed myself totally. I guess I'm a cheap person to get rid of if they don't have to pay any compensation. Previously I worked for 22 years in a place then next place 3.5 years and now this place : am feeling very unlucky: I need to get my confidence back up to face into interviews and applying for jobs which requires a lot of strength mentally from experience

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Littleacornnut · 12/06/2024 21:41

Well you won’t be sacked, you’ll be made redundant so you’ll leave as a good leaver.

so there’s that.

tbh there’s nothing you can do, employment law in the Uk is pretty weak.

how many people are being made redundant?

because there are timelines it’s more than a certain number and if it’s a big company and there’s a large amount of people, some who have a longer tenure for you then you’ll be able to piggy back with them hopefully in terms of the process being done ‘fairly’. If it’s a large amount of people from the business then there’ll be a consultation period (it’s largely box ticking but you can look for another job and it will give you some time)

to be truthful with you, as you’ve been there under 2 years the employer doesn’t have to operate in good faith with you and treat you fairly. Do you have any protected characteristics?

how will they be assessing you for suitability for the role have they said that?

do you work for a big company? It’s mid year time so it may be that mid year profits aren’t where they need to be and shareholders didn’t love the mid year report.

if you work for a big company likely they’ll offer a package. For instance I got made redundant after 2 months and walked away with 10k

Wherearethebutterflies · 12/06/2024 21:23

And as you have been there less than 2 years you may find yourself without a redundancy payout (unless they offer an enhanced package)

spanieleyes22 · 12/06/2024 20:57

I never knew that about the 2 year thing. I wish I had stayed in the other place now: they did have a big restructure but no redundancies.

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StormingNorman · 12/06/2024 19:51

Agree with the others, a lot of employment rights don’t kick in until you’ve been employed for two years.

Unions often overpromise and their legal teams aren’t the best. It would be worth speaking to ACAS.

spanieleyes22 · 12/06/2024 19:32

Yes it's all been a shock. For example in March one of the team left and we were told he wouldn't be replaced. But then they changed their minds and a current team member who was on a fixed contract was made permanent. That was only a couple of months ago.

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logicisall · 12/06/2024 19:16

Just saw your post that you have only been in the job for 1.5 years. Iirc, you can be let go for any reason if you have been employed for less than two years.

ComtesseDeSpair · 12/06/2024 19:16

If you’ve only been there a year and a half then you don’t have the legal protections which kick in after two years: they can give you your notice and hire somebody else a month later just by saying that they don’t feel you’re working out. This is probably why you don’t have the full picture of the situation: you very possibly won’t be included in redundancy conversations. Start looking for new roles and stop worrying about what the employer is going to do when you’re gone.

TimeForTeaAndG · 12/06/2024 19:11

spanieleyes22 · 12/06/2024 19:06

Thanks. I think so too; they showed us a table of how much we all cost at the moment and how much lower it will be after the restructure. Yes I have a union rep. The union seem as much in the dark as we are though tbh. They don't seem to know what's going on. I'm sure they will have gotten legal advice and it will all go ahead . They gave us a link where we can access help for our mental health. Oh yes they are ticking boxes .

Never assume that employers have bothered to check the legality of their actions.

Berga · 12/06/2024 19:09

Time to stop thinking about who will do the work when you're gone because it will be the same, that's the employers problem, not yours. Time to start getting selfish, you either get that 1 in 8 job if you want it or you haul them over the coals with a union and a good redundancy payout whilst looking for something new.

spanieleyes22 · 12/06/2024 19:06

Thanks. I think so too; they showed us a table of how much we all cost at the moment and how much lower it will be after the restructure. Yes I have a union rep. The union seem as much in the dark as we are though tbh. They don't seem to know what's going on. I'm sure they will have gotten legal advice and it will all go ahead . They gave us a link where we can access help for our mental health. Oh yes they are ticking boxes .

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MaybeSmaller · 12/06/2024 19:03

Being cynical, it sounds as though they want to save money by sacking you lot off and replacing you with cheaper people, but they are trying to pay lip service to the law to avoid a claim of unfair dismissal.

Talk to your union rep. It's what they are there for.

This may be helpful: https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights

Redundancy: your rights

Being made redundant - rights, statutory payments you're entitled to, notice periods and consultation, finding a job.

https://www.gov.uk/redundancy-your-rights

spanieleyes22 · 12/06/2024 19:00

Ok so I've only been there 1.5 years so will I be more at risk. No nothing is downsizing or changing. Same workload. Unless there is something they are not telling us. Thanks I'll pop over to Legal.

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Greenleavesinthesun · 12/06/2024 18:58

If your made redundant for no apparent reason (moving location, downsizing) then they can’t refill your position for a certain amount of months I believe but could be wrong.

Check with your union.

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