Please help settle an argument

TheDogSitsHere · 2024-06-12T14:21:36+00:00

If you ask someone to submit a report "by 12th June" would you expect that it would be submitted a) on the 11th June or before b) on the 12th June or before Thanks 🙏

FTPM1980 · 13/06/2024 00:15

If my boss says I need it BY tomorrow its because he needs to present it tomorrow or do something with it himself tomorrow..
Just as if he says by 3pm its because he is given the presentation (for example) at 3pm.

If ge said by the 12th I would assume something was happening on the 12th so would go for day before or ask what time

tennesseewhiskey1 · 12/06/2024 23:13

If work email - 5pm or COB on the 12th.

Gall10 · 12/06/2024 23:13

TheDogSitsHere · 12/06/2024 16:08

So to use your analogy, if an item of food said "use by the 12th June" then you wouldn't eat it after the 11th?

Show quote history

Correct!

flipflopsandsun · 12/06/2024 22:31

B

FeelingSoOverwhelmed · 12/06/2024 22:28

I'd think A, as I'd assume it would be ready to be looked at/used on 12th, but I can see why the majority think B. That's why I think x time on y date is a much more sensible way of phrasing it. Avoids any ambiguity if you say by midday on 11th etc.

WhenSunnyGetsBlue · 12/06/2024 20:15

B

FangsForTheMemory · 12/06/2024 19:03

TBH I would think B but I would check.

Chonk · 12/06/2024 18:59

B

HappiestSleeping · 12/06/2024 18:37

ThePants999 · 12/06/2024 18:26

As an aside, my workplace always suffers from a form of this problem whereby product management will say they need a feature in March, expecting to get it at the start of March and being surprised to later find us happily reporting we're ahead of schedule and will have it done by March 26th 😁

That one is on them. In March could be any time in March.

Having spent most of my life in product management, having a technology team deliver a March requirement before December is a definite win. Your product team should count their blessings 😂

ThePants999 · 12/06/2024 18:26

As an aside, my workplace always suffers from a form of this problem whereby product management will say they need a feature in March, expecting to get it at the start of March and being surprised to later find us happily reporting we're ahead of schedule and will have it done by March 26th 😁

ThePants999 · 12/06/2024 18:24

This thread demonstrates why you just shouldn't use that wording. If you need something by the start of the 12th, don't even mention the 12th - even the technically-unambiguous "before the 12th" creates the possibility that someone will see "12th" and think that's when they need to send it to you. Say "by close of business on the 11th" if you need it when you get in on the 12th.

HappiestSleeping · 12/06/2024 18:11

Fulshaw · 12/06/2024 18:08

That’s not a good analogy though because 7pm is a single fixed point in time. 12th June spans a whole day so the debate is whether it should be before the beginning of the day or before the end of it.

Show quote history

I know what the other people are saying, and I agree that in the business world, it is often the way the majority have interpreted it. To take my example though, if someone said to me "you need to have it to me by the 12th" they'd probably receive it at 11:59pm on the 11th, thereby having received it by the 12th.

I do agree that whoever wanted it should have been specific.

Fulshaw · 12/06/2024 18:08

HappiestSleeping · 12/06/2024 16:31

They did say they wanted it before 12th as they said they wanted it by the 12th. If you were going on holiday, and the airline said you need to check in by 7pm, you wouldn't arrive at 7:59pm and say "I thought you meant by the close of the hour".

That’s not a good analogy though because 7pm is a single fixed point in time. 12th June spans a whole day so the debate is whether it should be before the beginning of the day or before the end of it.

backslashruby · 12/06/2024 18:08

A. 12 June begins at one second past midnight on 12 June. So if it isn't in at that point then it isn't in 'by 12 June 'i.e the time that 12 June starts. Clearly I am in a very small minority though.😐

shams05 · 12/06/2024 18:00

If someone said by 12th , I would probably give it in first thing on the 12th not wait until end of the day really.
But giving it in on the 12th wouldn't make it late so you shouldn't have been pulled up on it.

Hazelville · 12/06/2024 17:23

HappiestSleeping · 12/06/2024 16:31

They did say they wanted it before 12th as they said they wanted it by the 12th. If you were going on holiday, and the airline said you need to check in by 7pm, you wouldn't arrive at 7:59pm and say "I thought you meant by the close of the hour".

That is how I would read it too.

olympicsrock · 12/06/2024 17:21

B

fairymary87 · 12/06/2024 17:20

There's not argument really, but the 12th of June means the 12th of June.... pretty simple really

crosbyrose · 12/06/2024 17:19

A

emmetgirl · 12/06/2024 17:18

B

Original poster

TheDogSitsHere · 12/06/2024 17:13

Lotsofthings · 12/06/2024 16:46

Are they from a different country, they might have different ways of expressing time?

No, he's not. Interestingly a colleague who has English as a 2nd language interpreted it the same way as I did though.

OP posts:

Original poster

TheDogSitsHere · 12/06/2024 17:02

HappiestSleeping · 12/06/2024 16:31

They did say they wanted it before 12th as they said they wanted it by the 12th. If you were going on holiday, and the airline said you need to check in by 7pm, you wouldn't arrive at 7:59pm and say "I thought you meant by the close of the hour".

But 7.59pm is later than 7pm. You'd be upset if you got to check in at 7pm and it had closed!

As others have said "by" is not synonymous with "before"; the dictionary definition is "no later than"

OP posts:

Lotsofthings · 12/06/2024 16:46

Are they from a different country, they might have different ways of expressing time?

IseultHam · 12/06/2024 16:46

Gall10 · 12/06/2024 16:07

Just to be awkward….A
It’s a bit like ‘best before date’ …best before 11th June…so eat it on the 10th.

It's BBE - best before end of 11th so fine upto (and probably after) end of the 11th, not 10th.

WhichEllie · 12/06/2024 16:36

“By” pretty much universally means EOD on the date given in the business world. So “by 12th June” would be 5pm or whatever on the 12th. If they wanted it on the 11th they would have needed to say “by June 11th.” You don’t typically see people saying things like “before June 12th” because that’s just the 11th.

I wouldn’t be impressed with being lectured when they were the ones with poor communication. If you want something on the 11th then you say the 11th.