Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

100% not unreasonable! She sounds vile and entitled and NO WAY would I host her or buy her a gift ever again! At least not unless she explained her behaviour and profusely apologised! Your sister is actually supporting her daughter's behaviour by still expecting you to host her! If I was her mother I would be telling her there is no way she should expect you to host nice holidays for her ever again. Actions have consequences and hurtful behaviour should not be rewarded! Stand firm OP and don't ever be made to feel you are in the wrong for not wanting to lavish money and time on someone who treats you badly ...

You could come to a compromise, and say you will have the neice if she apologisus for her previous behaviour, as even Jesus forgave those who truly repented.

That is not normal behaviour for teenagers. I have teenagers and none of them behave like that. They wouldn’t dream of telling me to eff off and I consider them to be pretty standard teenagers.

OP appeared to come to her decision, and leave the thread, on Thursday.

So OP, what do you think you’re going to do now you have had all of MN advice?

I wonder if you’ve been given different options you would not even have thought of?

Have seen this sort of thing before for instance somebody within scenario, wishes to burnish their parenting credentials and does so by attacking her DM and her family.

'I am not at fault,' they say to DN in not so many words, it's DM, DFM etc who did this, and your poor DN believes and believes absolutely this is true, this is why she is so angry at your side of the family.

The more you, unwittngly, undermne this narrative and this manipulation of your DN, by being kind, the more you will be attached behind scenes and DN laps it up.

What to do? Explain to DN, good if it came from her Mother, 'that everybody is angry at the mioment and apportioning blame and finger pointing.'

'Just say, the divorce is nobody's fault least of all DN, and advise her to rise above the fray and not be angry, enjoy her life and the treats given, to accept and give herself permission to be happy accepting this is not showing disloyalty to DF and his family. She has a right to be happy.

If her DF camp attqckes verbally other family members, all DN has to say, 'this is not my fault and I will be happy with you and your family and be happy with Mum and her family.' That might sort this or at least mitigat

Good luck, PS am not professional just a life traveler who has seen this before.

Good luck.

Hi @valsays I think there’s been some good suggestions about spending time just with her not a friend, having some downtime etc whilst still holding boundaries about her behaviour.
I also wanted to suggest your sister looks into doing an NVR course (non violent resistance). She could find it really helpful in rebuilding her relationship with her daughter. Many local authority Early Help departments offer it. All the best!

So sorry! That's what comes of commenting while I'm working!

@MILTOBE I was being sarcastic!

I also don't think you should be footing the whole bill however they behave. Your sister and friend's parents should also contribute.

I agree with this PP.
That is not normal behaviour. Stand your ground.

I think there are quite a lot of harsh comments in here about your DS and DN. Sounds like they've both had a rough time.
But absolutely wouldn't be hosting her, and it sounds like she had a terrible time anyway.
I would maybe consider sending a message though, acknowledging that she clearly didn't enjoy it, so you've decided to skip it this year, but that you're happy to hear from her if she feels differently.
Sounds like you'll get radio silence, but at 16 she's old enough to speak to you directly if she wants to.

Some people have suggested that the OP go and stay at her sister's place to babysit the niece so that her DS can go for a break somewhere. But why does a 16 year old need 'babysitting'? Oftentimes a 16 year old IS the babysitter! To younger kids.

I think we're in danger of infantilising teenagers, tbh. Yes this girl has had a horrible thing happen to her, in being virtually abandoned by her father (what a POS).

But she is doing well at school, and is popular, the OP says. And had plenty of love and support from her DM, DGM, and her aunt (and maybe others?). She sounds intelligent and should be self aware enough to realise that you don't kick someone who loves you and has done so much for you in the teeth like that. At 16 she should be capable of civilised behaviour, she's not a little girl. Or how will she function as an adult?

Sadly she seems to have taken against you for some reason, OP, and I doubt she even wants to spend time with you on a summer break. Unless she chooses to explain, you won't find out why either, I know it's frustrating. But why are you setting yourself up for further rudeness and/or rejection? It will hurt you, and it is teaching your DN that it's normal to treat people who love you badly, not good.

In your shoes I would drop the rope BUT let her know that if she ever wants to come back, explain and repair the relationship, then your door is open to her. I am sure you would be willing to forgive and forget, as you seem to be a kind and loving person.

No but you come from a family who accept being treated like shit and with zero consequences.

As you said, when a 16 yr old digs their heels in, what can you do?

You open the door and give them a choice........

I’m in bits OP, like actual tears.

Thank you for choosing to hold onto her even tighter. They think they’re so big and really this little girl just needs to know her auntie will never leave her. How much she’s fighting with you just lets me know how desperately she loves you.

She will look back in 10 years time and cringe no doubt. Until then, stick it out while she’s still hard to like.

Edinburgh sounds grand . Don’t worry about whether it’s a reward for bad behaviour- if it gets you both through the week then grab it with both hands ! Small steps eh ?

I would rather set fire to £1000 than be treated like that.

100% no from me. Maybe treat yourself to some nice activities during that period and let the little brat realise what she has missed out on. Or better still invite your sister over and give her a break from vile daughter and enjoy some time together.

This is not normal acceptable behaviour

Because their daughter came home and told them how awful she'd been in London! She'd probably slagged off her Christmas present, too.

P.s just a thought - the friend's parents haven't offered a reciprocal stay - I wonder why?

You spent over a £1000 last visit and £300 for the Christmas present. If you really want to give your sister a break:

1. Echoing PP, invite your DM and DS for the August break and make her father provide little darling's cover.

Tell her you won't be having her and give all the reasons x

I have 2 sons and 1 daughter, and I have never had any of them treat me that way it's absolutely NOT normal teen behaviour. I would definitely NOT have her come to stay with me, why would anyone want to be treated so disrespectfully, especially when you are doing everything you can to make their stay interesting, at your own expense!

There's a difference between teenage behaviour and spoiled teenage behaviour. Someone has to draw the line what's acceptable and what's not.

I hope your DN accepts the invitation and ground rules, and you have a lovely time together in Edinburgh OP. Teen years are so hard to navigate, and her recent experiences are probably causing her to lash out and be unpleasant when really all she needs is consistency and stability. Well done for working through your frustration to provide that for her. I’m sure in a few more years when she’s grown up, your DN will realise how much you have done for her. She is very lucky to have you