Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

That's terrible behaviour from her. I have teens they can be difficult but that's extreme. I would not be playing host to anyone who treated me like that.

I think this is how she might be feeling inside, like a “nasty little cow”. She might be thinking things about herself that are way worse than what she is being described as on this thread (our inner critical voices are often far nastier than what other people say about us).

Have other people here never taken out feelings of stress, upset and abandonment on the very people they love the most? I know I have.

Yes the behaviour is not okay and there need to be boundaries, but her feelings are valid. Her bad behaviour does not make her a bad person, a “brat” or a “cow”. My guess is she is feeling terrible and this is being acted out towards her aunt; she’s trying to push and push and show just how awful she believes she is at the moment.

I agree ask the DN what she wants to do? She's 16. She should decide.

I think though that it's hard not to think of your DN like that after what you have told us. I don't think many teens or even children would be that rude about a fully funded trip WITH a friend or an expensive gift if they weren't already 'spoilt' in some way. She is used to getting what she wants regardless of what she does. Yes she may need emotional support but at this point I don't think that needs to be in the form of you paying for her to go away. Clearly that did not work the last time she stayed with you.

She is having a hard time which of course will affect her. However it is not normal teen behaviour and although DS may have sanctions, they are clearly not working. This could be that they aren't really enforced properly/consistently or DN really may not care.

In my previous post (lost among many) I agreed that it is a really tough situation considering everything DN & DS are going through. This does not mean that you have to put up with it.

Her loosing out on her yearly trip with you is sad, but if you agree too readily (even going to Edinburgh) it really isn't teaching her anything about how hurtful her behaviour is. Coupled with the fact that she hasn't apologised nor been in touch just shows (in my opinion) that she can get away with anything or she is currently beyond caring. She is 16 so definitely old enough to know better.

I really think that it's important for your DS & especially DN to understand how you feel and I don't think you should be making such a quick decision about booking to take her to Edinburgh, when atm the likelyhood is that she will just throw it back in your face. I would also try regular face-to-face or telephone contact with DN before making your decision, to see how she is.

If you do decide to take her I would also be upfront and tell DN that if she is disrespectful like that again, that will be the last time you let her stay/take her away.

I had a difficult teenager. Really really difficult but she would never, ever have behaved like that.

No way should you have her to stay

I'd just message back: Well thankfully she's not my teenager, so I'm opting out of this stage. She's more than welcome when she turns back into a reasonable human being.

Love this

Why buy her anything, why plan treats, why go out of your way for her in any way, when the nicer you are the worse she behaves towards you? Some strange dynamic here. If some kind of family therapy isn't an option, I'd advise a healthy dose of time and space between the two of you.

Quite. Teenagers can process loss as abandonment as well. It's a really complicated and difficult time for DN. 'Angry' for teenagers can be afraid, sad, frustrated, powerless, a whole lot of things that they need support with.

I do think immediate, natural consequences are important. But these need to be accompanied with love, empathy and emotional safety. You won't parent (or aunt!) well without both halves.

Your niece sounds like an ungrateful nasty little cow who should be offering you a major apology.

This isn’t typical teenage behaviour at all.

Sounds like you’ve spent a huge amount of money on her over the years and that is how she thanks you. I’d be telling her and your sister that the annual visit is off until a genuine apology is given.

I would be inclined to say it's a no for the moment.
How could you manage her behaviour if she decides to just do whatever she wants when she arrives? You can't physically restrain her if she decides she is going to go clubbing. You can't force her into a car for a trip out.
You aren't the parent and have limited disciplinary measures or sanctions that you can use,
Unless you are confident you can deal with her anger and aggression then I wouldn't be willing to take on that risk.

I think this rather misses the point. Bad behaviour like this – and it is obviously terrible – is a sign that something is badly wrong. All you are telling us is that your children and nieces and nephews are happier than the OP's DN, for which I am sure you are grateful, but which is also hardly surprising.

I completely understand your reluctance to spend another week as your niece’s metaphorical punchbag - but I think thinking about a week this summer as either a punishment or a reward for your niece is the wrong mindset.

Your niece’s behaviour last summer sounds awful, as does her reaction to your xmas present but surely you wouldn’t want to punish your niece a year/6 months after poor behaviour?

As a parent - but hopefully as a very close/important Auntie too we forgive, and we forgive and we forgive. That doesn’t mean I think you shouldn’t try to manage her behaviour or set boundaries/warnings about what is expected of her - but holding grudges isn’t helpful.

Hopefully she will mature in time and grow up into a nice young woman.

Edinburgh sounds good - if she fancies it. Which I would ask her as her idea of a good time might not be the same as yours so you might as well find out if you are on the same page to begin with. Another alternative might be your sister going on holiday and you staying at her house for a week if your sister needs a break and your niece can just do her normal thing. I appreciate that that isn’t a treat for you though and more a selfless act to help your sister.

I think it’s quite easy to burn bridges when the going gets tough and you have to dig deep to hang in there - but that doesn’t mean allowing your niece to treat you badly.

@valsays "I've contacted my DS to say I'm not sure I want to continue the tradition. My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens."

You tell your sister that her poorly behaved kid is her problem and that you are surprised she's not so humiliated by what her daughter has done that she actually thinks you'll have her under your roof again.

Say no, mean no.

Two options to consider. 1) Ask your DN. Say you clearly didn't enjoy it last year, I don't know why, so wondered if you'd prefer not to come this year. However, I think your DM needs a rest (cancer) so wondered if you were coming what you would like to do? Gives her the responsibility, makes her independent, underlines you haven't forgotten her poor behaviour. Depending on reaction, react accordingly, so for example, 'great suggestions, all booked, all your choice so I won't have any moaning this year', 2) Stay with your DS. Give her the rest by being there and helping, still see DN, but don't give her the treats etc. If she asks why, say 'oh well I thought you hadn't enjoyed last year so I thought I'd just see your mum'.

She needs to realise behaviour isn't acceptable, you won't keep on treating if she behaves that way, you don't want her at yours if she does. If she comes and behaves that way take her home.

I have an 18 year old. I didn't have not would I have accepted that behaviour.

@valsays controversial opinion but I don’t think you should be looking to punish DN. She behaved very badly last summer, yes, but you should have tackled it at the time or soon after. At Christmas your DN had to eat on her own and leave early - that sounds like an adequate punishment to me. It’s poor form to hold grudges with kids / it doesn’t help them change their behaviour at all. I think your focus needs to be on rebuilding your mutual trusting, loving relationship. Teens are tough on themselves and others. And your DN has some real challenges.
A trip to Edinburgh sounds like a good way to reset your relationship and find opportunities to talk.

People on mumsnet are generally very quick to suggest ending difficult relationships- it’s always “you have a DH problem” “LTB” “go no contact” but the reality is we have very few family relationships in this world and they can can last a lifetime and be cherished.

Teenagers experience emotion so intensely and aren’t psychologically sophisticated enough to manage it properly. Yes your neices behaviour is fucking appalling BUT she’s playing out something she can’t process. Seems like she’s testing how hard she has to push you to reject her before you do. Probably because her dad rejected her and she’s scared shitless her mum will die so she’s testing how easily you will walk away.

I don’t think you should have her to stay and spend a grand on her but don’t mirror her extreme behaviour if you want to salvage the relationship. Can you plan a few day visits, see her, maybe say “it’s doesn’t seem a good idea for you to visit but I’d like to see you” (note don’t say you don’t want her to visit, just it doesn’t seem a good idea so won’t be happening). Put in some boundaries, acknowledge it’s the consequence of her behaviour but don’t reject her.

My own kids don't even behave that way towards me, and my nieces and nephews I couldn't even imagine it. Tell your sis no way!!

Your opening post contradicts this though.

My DS says she has to face this kind of behaviour every day and it's just part of dealing with teens. She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual.

If she thinks you’re unreasonable for not wanting to host your niece then she doesn’t think the behaviour’s that much of an issue. I wouldn’t expect my sister to want to be anywhere near teen DSD if she’d spoken to her like that- let alone spend hundreds of pounds on giving her a jolly.

I also think that Edinburgh is a good idea.
How good are you at having difficult conversations OP? What about her? Does she open up at all?

Thinking back to her rants. What would you like to have said to her? What at this distance do you think would have been a good way of handling it?

I wouldn’t have used the word hurt, but I would have said that her vulgar words are beneath. That if she is upset then use her words and actually say something constructive, but vomiting rage she has to do by herself. So aiming for a briskness, rather than stooping to her level.
She obviously doesn’t realize that actually she has it pretty easy. (She has!) so maybe try to get her to realize that.

You are a great aunt and a supportive sister. I agree with those saying that your DN is going through stuff at the moment. Of course, that doesn’t mean that you deserve to be her emotional punch bag but your awareness of her hinterland helps give her actions context.

If you do decide to host, clear boundaries that your DN is aware of before arrival might help - communicating directly to her and copying your sis in so they both know and it also gives her the autonomy of saying no if she doesn’t want to come. Nothing heavy, just saying it’ll be a relaxed visit with no particular events booked (and no clubbing:) just hanging out planning stuff day by day. Equally, you aren’t obligated to to host at all or maybe do a shorter stay?

At a guess, she’s not angry at you, you’re just one of the safe harbours to offload her pain. Teens can be hell but I’m a believer that all action is communication and it sounds like she’s had a lot to process over the last few years. It doesn’t mean her actions towards you are ok but she will eventually get through this and hopefully will remember that you were there for her.

You're a much better person than most. I certainly would not have bought any present whatsoever after the way your DN behaved when you hosted her and her friend. I think the tradition of hosting your DN has reached an end.

I guarantee if you put any conditions in her staying she won't come. If she is still keen to come then there's probably something going on. Might not be anything bad but keep trying to get her to open up. She sounds very angry about something.

The suggested response from shinyandnew

Absolutely no chance she would be staying with me! YANBU!