Really dislike 16-year-old niece: don't want to have her to stay

no way would she be staying with me

I'm afraid she'd never darken my door again unless there was a total 180 degree turn around in behaviour.
And l wouldn't be buying her any more presents, either. The ungrateful mare.
I've got grown up stepsons, my cousin and friends have (grown up now) children, and not once have any of them ever behaved like that.
Your sister needs to take some responsibility and start parenting.

Gosh, after the first few sentences I was coming on to say “don’t give up, she may just need better examples” but after reading the remainder of your first post the answer is NO! - it’s way beyond your responsibility to sort this. The most I’d do is a day trip and say you’ll consider more when she can show she can behave herself!!!!

In the absence of a second parent for DN, it seems your sister is struggling and therefore using you to parent in place of her Ex, - expecting you to absorb the dramas and lack of manners from her teen DD without complaint.

I think it would be better if you put your sister straight and told her that if you were her parent, out of love, you wouldn’t have let her get away with her conduct at Christmas without a proper apology and consequences. But you simply aren’t prepared to take on the parenting of her DD as she isn’t your responsibility and therefore your intervention would likely not be received well at all and would be unsuccessful, maybe even deepening the family rift.

Suggest to your DS that you feel its best fir DN to give it a break this August but you will happily resume aunty duty at Christmas if your DN decides she wants to start again and actually have a decent more mature relationship with you.

Soon your DN will be out into the big wide world, and people won't be as kind to her as you or her mum.

The sooner she learns she cannot speak to people that way (even though her father sounds awful for abandoning her) the better it is for her in the long-run. Otherwise she'll have a rude awakening when people don't want to be her friend or she can't have relationships.

Even if she apologised, I wouldn't have her stay again.

I wish I’d had an aunt (or uncle) who cared as much about me as you do for your DN!

What a horrible, ungrateful brat. Write her off, she doesn’t deserve any kindness. Sounds like her mother isn’t much better.

Fuck, that. Stand up for yourself. Say no way. DN can come grovelling back when she's 23 and stopped being a twat. And shame on your sister for not pulling her up.

OP you seem lovely and I hope you guys can resolve this. It's actually quite a sad situation for all of you. I wish I had the answer.

I certainly would not host her again though, while she still acts like she's done nothing wrong. I suspect you need to hash it our somehow... or maybe she could just come stay with you a weekend so it's not so awkward.

15/16 is often the age when MH problems begin to manifest. In your DN's case possibly exacerbated by an unstable history and massive insecurity.

I think I'd forget spending money on expensive gifts and experiences and have her assessed by an adolescent specialist psychiatrist. It may not be a diagnosable MH issue but she certainly sounds like she needs pointing in the direction of the right specialist therapist and I think you need professional advice in relation to that.

Girls of your dn's age have often masked extremely well until they reach GCSE age and pressures.

I think someone needs to learn that actions have consequences.

Channel zammo. "Just say no"

@valsays
Hell no!
I have teens, if either of them behaved like that I'd be mortified.
YADNBU,, don't be giving in and hosting again.

Such a hard situation. I'm wondering if it is wrapped up in the hurt she must feel about her dad leaving - almost pushing you to abandon her too, or to see at what point you too will walk out of her life. Maybe on a subconscious level so she is not even aware of what she is doing or why. I don't know!

I think your idea of a change of scene and going to Edinburgh is a good one particularly as you genuinely want to go. She will feel that - that your excitement/ interest are genuine and you are not enduring her visit and hosting her out of a sense of obligation. You sound like a lovely aunty!

It's really ironic that grown adults are incapable of maturely discussing a child's behaviour without resorting to childish and disrespectful insults towards that child. This poor kid has been through a lot by the sounds of it. She's not a 'brat' she's probably hurting and needs a great deal of emotional support.

That said, I don't think that the answer is to pander to this OP. She is at a crucial stage of her transition to adulthood and now more than ever she needs clear boundaries and clear consequences to her choices.

I wouldn't spend any more money on dn and I'd make it clear to her that this is because she didn't seem to like your treats and it made you very upset. I would make it clear to her that you're always up for spending time with her and help her with any problems but that you expect respect in return. Until you get respect you won't be spending money on her for a start. Try and leave the door open as best you can as she will hopefully mature over the next few years and having a loving aunt might make all the difference

You sound lovely OP and it's obvious you really care for this child and your ds.

Edinburgh sounds like a good call as long as friend us fully prepped about angry rude teen

Okay, so if the niece had been writing rude stuff down about her aunt in a diary which was discovered, rather than expressing it in words, that would be different? Would that make her less of a “cow”?

But nobody is saying those things to the 15yo. She'll never know.

"Last Christmas I bought her something that I'm sure she'd said she wanted. Something that cost £300."

Full me once, shame on you. Full me twice...

"Their visits cost me over £1k, which I don't begrudge."

If this is so, why not just give DN £1K to stay away? Win-win!

"She's actually accused me of being unreasonable for not carrying on as usual. AIBU?"

Ask her to point out the clause in the "contract" you signed as her slave which shows this.

Awww...I really feel for you in this situation.

Pretty much everyone on this thread has said what you yourself must feel - i.e. tell your sister and niece to forget about it, at least for this year.

Totally understandable.

But....it would be worth looking at it a bit differently. I dunno, maybe the girls are a little bit older now - they won't need to be with you absolutely all the time, that would help.

Perhaps explain to your sister that your niece's friend felt awkward - get her to prep the girls beforehand just so she absolutely knows how hurt your feelings were.

Sometimes youngsters just don't know..it might be worth emphasising how upsetting it was for you.

I dunno...just another angle ...it would be lovely to have a family tradition continue - imagine how ace it'll be in a few years.

Very difficult situation though - I wouldn't blame you if you said no; at least for this year...

While your DN sounds incredibly ungrateful it's really irrelevant what anyone says on MN your choices are you do as you want and don't look after your DN.
Or..
You do as your DSis wants you to do and continue with the "tradition".

IMO if you do continue letting your DN stay with you you'll have to be open to letting her treat you with such disrespect because, although you say your DSis tells her off its clear that DN isn't listening as her bad behaviour and lack of respect towards you continues, by having her stay you know pretty much what may happen so in part you're accepting you're ok with how she's treating you.

The only way to let both DSis and DN know that you're fed up with it is by sticking to your guns, saying no and more importantly meaning it.

As pp have said, does your niece even want to come and stay with you?

It seems that you want to continue a relationship despite her behaviour and no apology, so if you go ahead with her coming to stay then maybe suggest that it would be on the condition that there is no friend accompanying her, and you’ll be doing very low key/low cost things. Give her a choice of particular things to do, nothing else. If she wants to go somewhere expensive then she can fund it herself. She may be going through a hard time but it’s no excuse for rude, ungrateful behaviour with no consequences.

As for Christmas it would be £20 in a card only. Absolutely no one should ever throw a gift back in your face and think that is appropriate behaviour and excusable because of xyz.

@MrsTerryPratchett , your posts on this thread are fantastic. If you have teens, they are very lucky to have you.

This girl sounds desperately unhappy 😞

If it is not okay for this 15 year old to say rude things to her aunt, then how is it okay for (I assume) some adults to refer to this 15 year old child as a “brat”, a “horrible cow” and a “wretch”?

Because the poor aunt had those things said directly to her. Whereas the rude niece in question will be blissfully unaware.

I would have your DN over for the few days but l would not have her friend too.
maybe she will open up more, maybe not. It will help your DS who has a lot on.
As much as i appreciate your DN has had a tough time and is lashing out she also needs to know this behaviour is just not on. She is no longer a toddler but a young lady. I would have her over for a few nights in the hope you can bridge the gaps. Hopefully in time she will see what she is doing is just not on
.
by the way what a lovely aunt you are. She is lucky to have you