Child s education

@Tulipshaped yes, but my issue is I am not Catholic like 30% of the population. Unfortunately only 5% of schools are Multi denominational. So we like the OP experience challenges just in a different way.

Access can state open but the lived reality is very different.

I don't think it is the faith whatever sort it is is to blame for. It is the power that corrupts.

in Ireland that isn't accurate. The state gives substantial money, most religious orders are not putting their money in.

@Marblessolveeverything

One big difference between Ireland and the UK that may be important in this regard is that in Ireland Catholic schools are not allowed use the faith of the student as one of their selection criteria.

Schools for minority religions ( eg Church of Ireland) can preferentially select students depending on their faith, but Catholic schools can no longer do this in Ireland.

I would guess that OP is in NI, where Catholic education wouldn't be like that, no. But obviously the picture is very complex here and it's not necessarily as straightforward as just applying to a school of a different religion/cultural group.

I would ( genuinely) be interested to know if state Catholic schools are run along those lines.
I am Catholic and taught in a Catholic school ( secondary). There was one whole school Mass per term and probably one more for the year group. One prayer in morning Form Time, usually written by the pupils. RE was allocated standard time for a GCSE subject and covered ‘all’ faiths. As for a few weeks of retreat with priests.. well! At most a day per year where the school ethos featured along with other topics.

It is hard, because any good parent wants the best for their children. If you are good friends could you kindly bring it up and explain that it is hard. That your feelings on it aren't based on your friends but on the system and you feeling your child will not have a good experience because of it. I wouldn't lose good friends over this.

Thank you for that information - in Ireland sadly the abuse and or the knowledge and silence of the abuse was and continues to be epidemic. I must do some further reading on other countries experiences.

The Catholic church haven't had such power in UK as they did in Ireland or Poland. It was always a minority. Therefore, the abuse was less frequent.
It is also important to look at it from broader perspective; it is not like every school and every Catholic run place is a subject to abuse. Actually, it is a tiny percent in the broader scale

Would you like your child to go to Catholic as I assume school? The school has good results as most of schools with Catholic values.

Would you like your DC to attend masses every week and have 2-3 h of religion at school not to mention start and end of a day with the Catholic prayers? Few weeks of retreat with priests per year. Yes/No? If not I don't see the problem. Remember that you may not be interested in such curiculum even if you had an access.

It is your bragging friends that are your problem and not the school.

@DexaVooveQhodu in Ireland that isn't accurate. The state gives substantial money, most religious orders are not putting their money in.

They are too busy paying big bucks to avoid paying the money due to the countess victims of clerical abuse. Court ordered over a decade ago. I would be very interested in knowing if the same situation is in the UK.

My baby group met in an area further from me where the best grammar school is located and to be fair lots of them did hammer on about getting their (baby!) Child in. I remember one person stating confidently that their 2/3 year old would definitely get a place as they were such a bright preschooler.

I didn't feel particularly bad about it but I was aware that it was a lesser chance for my dc to get in due to not being in catchment, as well as being super selective.

Fast forward and I'm not even friends with those people. I don't know which schools their dc went to in the end. I ended up prioritising the faith school and my dc got a place there and we are very happy with it. Meanwhile I did recently go round the best grammar school and it wasn't as fabulous as my friends made out all those years ago. So I wouldn't pay too much attention to this boastful woman.

@DexaVooveQhodu explains the situation very clearly

Op if your talking about Scotland you absolutely can apply to RC schools and lots of Muslims prefer them.

They will take Catholics first but they can't refuse other people if they aren't full.

Are you sure the faith school is genuinely better? Ie have you been to open days, looked at websites, compared them on specific criteria etc? There are a couple of Catholic primary and secondary schools near me and I know a few ex-pupils and current/ Future parents who think the schools are amazing. Actually they're not in my opinion and don't provide the education I would want for my DC. Too focused on Catholicism and the requirements of the religion (regular prayer, communion etc) at the expense of a true breadth of knowledge of the 'outside world'. The local Catholics I know in general seem a bit like 'this is the local Catholic primary. DC will then go to the catholic secondary round the corner '. If they want to stick with a religious education, the path is predetermined and they have to believe and speak as if it's actively a good place for their child. Doesn't mean it is objectively an excellent school, just the best of their very limited (self imposed) options.

I don't understand how this works. We have a Catholic primary and secondary school. Their admissions criteria is essentially 1) Catholic children (there is a lot if detail about frequency of attendance at church, age of baptism, siblings etc to differentiate) 2) other faiths 3) anyone else. Generally their places all go to people in the first category. There is no provision for 20% who aren't Catholic. Is it to do with how they are funded? In contrast the CofE primary offers 50% of spaces on distance.

Are your children year 6? Is the move imminent?

Have you done the open evenings at the other schools? Surely you would have to be given a place at a local school - what are the catchment rules in your area?

"If you are in England, state funded religious schools have to take a proportionate amount of pupils from outside the religious criteria. Typically it's 20% minimum."

Only 20% of Brits are regular church goers.

If schools had to take a proportionate number of pupils from outside the religious criteria it would be 80%, not 20%.

fairadmissions.org.uk/

State school selection by faith is unfair and needs to go.

A hill I'm prepared to die on!

It’s really weird that she brings up secondary schools every single time you meet up if your kids are still small and it’s years off. What a bore! Can’t you just politely shut it down? Like point out it’s years away and that you probably can’t consider that one anyway since you’re not x religion, and then swiftly change the subject.

Also if it’s years off things do change- declining birth rates may mean you get into that school, a change of head may mean you don’t rate it anymore, a school you don’t like now may be amazing by then, the kids might not get on by Y6 and you want them to go to separate secondaries… etc…

If you are in England, state funded religious schools have to take a proportionate amount of pupils from outside the religious criteria. Typically it's 20% minimum.

There will be alternative schools locally, you just might not like it

Your son can do well whatever school he goes to. And he'll make new friends. My dc had friends from school, friends of friends, extra curricular etc
Seems really silly not to stay friends with the other mums over this.

It's OK to outgrow friendships. Baby friends dynamics usually change and drift as there's the dynamics of parents and children, then the lifestyles and circimstances of the parents change over the years.

You either need to assert yourself around these tedious conversations and totally change the subject or decide if the friendship is not compatible.

Kindly, you care too much about comparing different circumstances and let their choices affect your mood too much, but also they sound like tedious bores to be fixated on this for so many years in advance.
If private school works better for you, then do what's right for your circumstances, and for your sanity, stop comparing.

I would distance myself from these mums as it is making you feel worse. Don't bother challenging them about it, you can't change the system and they are gleeful of the advantages their dc will have.

You need to draw a line under it and establish a plan to get your dc the best education within the limits of the system. I don't think saving for private is the way to go as it sounds like it would be a financial struggle and fees will be going up. Grammar is an option but you'd likely have to move and it would be a gamble as some dc don't get in even with lots of tutoring. What we did was target one of the top comps in the country, and moved into the same street to ensure we could definitely get in under distance criteria. We could only afford the inflated house prices by renting a small flat from Year 5 (we had to sell our old home first). It was a squeeze but we bought a new house again a couple of miles away, after dc1 had started at the school, so we are back in a family size home now, and dc2 will still be able to get in under sibling criteria. There must be a very good comp somewhere in your region that you could move near? What year are your dc in now?

The ones that don’t really practice may find it hard to get in. Lots of faith schools require a letter from the priest confirming regular attendance! Have a look at the detailed admission criteria on the schoool’s website.

Also check the admissions for the last year on the LA website. It may be that places were allocated to those in the last category of admission if it wasn’t over subscribed with the religious.

Anyway, if it is as much about your friends as about your own unresolved school situation, just tell your friends to stop it, before losing friendships or spending thousands on private in a race to out-school them. “Yes, lucky for you! But I am finding the prospect of secondary transfer quite daunting so I’m the wrong audience”.

Kids need a ‘good enough’ school to get them through the curriculum. Most thrive without being in ‘the best’ school that all the parents vye for.

I agree it is unfair. Where we are, the local faith based schools have adjusted the admission criteria to effectively exclude looked after and previously looked after children by putting them way behind children of their faith - excluding the most vulnerable doesn’t seem consistent with the faith!