To find what’s happened to Michael Mosley quite anxiety provoking

@kc431

I’ve done that. But going out in blazing midday heat - millions of people do this, not just on holiday but in many countries construction workers and farmers have to work in these temperatures and do not die.

I really hot countries, entire construction sites close down over the hottest months. In agriculture, workers are out in the fields in the mornings and evenings when it's cooler. There's a reason that hot countries have siestas - they have time off during the hottest parts of the day but start work sooner and finish later in the cooler parts of the day.

We don't have as much control as people would like think with regard to disease though. Some risks can be reduced but genetics, external factors such as viruses, old age, random DNA mutations and just bad luck are involved most of the time. Humans are not designed to live for ever.

Quite. Not everyone lives and works in the hot conditions, particularly older people. If they don't take precautions, many die.

@TorroFerney

Same as I posted previously, it's to help us believe that we have some control when we really have none.

Of course we have control. There is no "devine" body with our names written into a calendar as to how and when we're going to die! Yes, some have no control, i.e. get run over by a runaway bus, or a cancer without a known cause. But the vast majority can make choices which will ultimately influence lifespan. To say that we have no control at all is ridiculous.

Disturbia81, I agree with that, I can’t stop thinking about it, how a few silly mistakes can be made on one hot afternoon and then someone as wonderful as Mosley is lost forever.
someone above said that people live and work in these conditions, which is true but the ones working outside will be younger and adapted to the conditions. Also there are a lot of deaths of migrant construction workers in the Middle East, many will be due to heat exhaustion.

@headstone
Yes, this happened to my DH, after lsoing his job, age 60. I always say 'he did an Andrew Marr', etc.
Fortunately not my DH was not as serious, having a subarachnoid hemorrhage.

At lot of places do not have a reliable mobile phone signal, and that is even within the UK.
I have just returned from a UK holiday, and no our rental accommodation did not have reliable phone signal.
However, if you have a phone, it is maybe a good idea to take one with you, I think.
Several reports have suggested MM was feeling a bit unwell, when he made the decision to return to his villa by foot. Maybe he was already suffering from the heat stroke, which apparantly makes one confused.
In otherwords, instead of looking at it, as his decisions led to his death, maybe the heat was making him make unwise decisions.

Onedaystronger , I used to work as a stroke nurse, from what I was told in training it’s the risk of bleeding in the brain when blood pressure gets too high during vigorous exercise. I was told it’s more common in men over 40 who suddenly start really going for it exercise wise. I think Mosley looked into the benefits of short bursts of really vigorous exercise, which I believe Andrew Marr blames for his stroke.

I definitely don't blame him or think he's stupid.. I think most of these frustrated comments come from a good place because we liked him so much and are upset. If it was someone we weren't bothered about there wouldn't be all this analysis. Just wish it had been different

no but the discussion (and her post) are about contact as a safety issue.

Commercial Aviation is similar..debrief after every flight - what if anything went wrong, what could have been done better..try not to apportion blame.

As far as the subject of this thread goes as some have pointed out it’s possible MM thought he was about to partake in a short walk - if there’s any deep investigation of the human factors behind this one question will be what was his “mental model” of what he was about to do.

If he genuinely thought he was just heading off on a v short walk some of his decisions some here are criticizing him for would have made sense to him - that’s why in some industries you share/cross check your mental model and plan with team members before actually taking action.

Another point is there’s a lot of talk of map reading and access to a map but some people, even some people with lots and lots of qualifications, can be absolutely pants at relating what they see on a screen/sheet of paper with what is visible to the eye.

I think she probably meant out of contact for personal reassurance .

I’m not sure it would have been usual to send the “Daddy I’ve got a wobbly tooth “ type messsges that we are constantly checking in with today.

Merchant Navy or Royal Navy sailor? My husband was at sea in the merchant fleet and I went with him (early 70's to late 80's) It was absolutely possible to send radio telegrams and make radio phone calls from and to anywhere in the marine world. Of course bad weather sometimes interrupted the signal and it was expensive, but ships were certainly not competely out of contact.

Sailing is a great example of how a small series of mishaps can result in something going dramatically awry, hence it's good practice amongst skippers- and even commercial ships' crews- to sit down and have a no blame debrief about what went wrong and how to avoid it next time after any actual or potential mishap.

Note the "no blame" bit and the lack of the "Oh well, I wouldn't be so stupid as to do that" attitude. Pride goes before a fall.

Regardless of it all shit happens in life.

We can plan and prepare and make what we hope are sensible health decisions. I think there is so much talk about this because people are shocked that this has happened to a "health guru" as if he should have known better.

Someone mentioned earlier that people in hot countries live and work - well yes they do but this is why there is siesta time. I see people in the UK out jogging even when we get really hot weather. What are they thinking? We need to respect our environment.

Somebody upthread mentioned a subject called “Human Factors”, something that comes comes up a lot these days in accident investigations and reports…current thinking is it always pays to try and find out why a decision was made to stop such an accident happening again, rather than just jumping in thinking somebody was stupid or foolish, case closed. This C&P might be of interest.

“The main purpose for investigating an event should be to understand why it happened, not to search for the person(s) responsible. It is not the attribution of blame, but rather the analysis of behaviours, decisions and the underlying factors that help us to understand why an event occurred.
Most people don’t set out to make an error or cause an accident – they just want to get the work done. Generally, people do what they consider to be reasonable at the time – given their knowledge, objectives, mental model, available time and resources etc. “

https://humanfactors101.com/topics/human-factors-in-investigations/

I read both the above. Another source I read (I think Sky News) said he was crawling around. So they all differ slightly but all agree he was in that area around the fence for 30 minutes when it should have taken 5 minutes to cross the area. He was either stumbling or crawling or both and behaving in a confused manner.

I'm trying not to read anymore accounts of this but The Times said he was going back and forth around the fence. The Mail said he was stumbling around for a long time and looking confused.

This is a wonderful reply and I welled up reading it. 🥺

Tragic what has happened, but it has made us all think about our actions, and it will make us think about things we do. We are both a few years older than MM. As we were reading the news DH and I have activated location sharing on our phones. DH goes for a few hours walk most mornings and usually tells me his planned route in case of emergency (or if it starts to rain, so I can find him in the car - he got caught in a sudden storm once,) so this may help, but will hopefully never be needed. As you get older, friends and colleagues fall off. We had a friend due in a car on his way from a wedding at 57, another drop from a brain heamorage at 64, but worse, in our eyes, a really close friend has suddenly been diagnosed with a lung condition which seriously curtains his movements, not quite housebound yet, but can't walk more than a few metres without stopping to recover. They had a very active lifestyle. Lots of travel, and at a stroke , that is over. He is 78 so feels this is the beginning of the end, he is keeping positive, but his wife is finding it very hard.

@Rubbishconfession
"Sorry to be pedantic, but I can’t see where Joe or anyone says he was going back and forth stumbling over the rocks for half an hr, going back on himself. Do you have a link?"
Apparantly, when he reached the fence at the rear of the Marina, he went backwards and forwards. Possibly looking for a gate...
Then he walked further down to the fence at the side of the marina, before he sat down.
They won't show that bit of the cctv, as that was just before he lay down and died.
Someone who had seen the cctv drew the route, and apparantly this is where he was stumbling, etc.
Also, it from when he was previously spotted at the village before (Pedi?), it was a long time before he was spotted at the marina.
I think the implication is that he was already suffering from heat stroke.
I have read two reports that stated he felt a bit unwell, before leaving, and that was the reason for attempting to return to the villa.

@newbathroomhelplease
"I feel comforted that I'd never make the choices he made that led to his death"

We ALL sometimes make mistakes, but fortunately, they do not always lead to tragedy. You will make different mistakes, and hopefully nothing you do will to tragedy, but life is full of choices, and 'what ifs'.

I agree.

I really hope that no member of Dr Moseley's family see this post.

Sorry to be pedantic, but I can’t see where Joe or anyone says he was going back and forth stumbling over the rocks for half an hr, going back on himself. Do you have a link?

I don't really understand why so many people are continuing to say they don't/won't carry phones. If MM had been carrying a phone, it's likely he'd still be alive, for multiple reasons. He could have seen a map and realised he was heading in the wrong direction. He could have checked the temperature, which was perhaps hotter than he realised. He could have called his wife or friends who knew the island, or emergency services for help. I'd never, ever start throwing blame towards someone who has tragically lost their life, but I do desperately wish he'd had a phone and I do wish all the people who are being so snotty about carrying one would think again. I'm sure nobody ever thinks they're going to need it till it's too late. Being alone with no means of summoning help is never clever.