To find what’s happened to Michael Mosley quite anxiety provoking

I think you'll find most people on this thread are incredibly sad about this and are frustrated by how it happened and trying to make sense of it. I've only seen one person be nasty about him.

@Disturbia81 I agree wholeheartedly. If I didn't push myself into discomfort I wouldn't be fit enough to run for a bus never mind run at events.

I have had issues with BP in the past, now controlled with meds. My GP is aware that I exercise quite hard and has been encouraging.

I would stop if I felt very unwell but other than that I hadn't considered that I might be risking my health.....

Exactly.

That is very true that the risks aren’t mentioned.

Didn't mm cure his type 2 diabetes by fasting?

I think research is showing that while moderate exercise is good for the heart, vigorous exercise can damage it, particularly as you get older.

I am so disappointed at the number of posters judging MM. It baffles me that people are comfortable being so critical of him.

The prior bloke lost his life FFS.

Every single person makes decisions every single day. We make what feels like the best decision given the set of circumstances before us. Sometimes we get it wrong. It is impossible not to get it wrong sometimes. The impact of getting it wrong can be negligible or huge. Blaming, criticising, judging is vile.

Remember that next time you make a mistake.

@Onedaystronger Sometimes it's hard to know what is best isn't it as theres so much advice. You hear of fit footballers dying on the pitch. And yes all we hear is exercise is beneficial so we get past 40 and many take it more seriously but how much exercise is too much? How vigorous should you be? It needs to be more well known

Merchant.

It was indeed possible to send a radio message, but generally not done unless something quite serious happened. I have a copy of the telegram they sent when I was born, for example.

We really take connectivity and travel itself for granted, even over land long distance calls then were quite poor quality, and very expensive. People who moved away to a different country quite often might never return again, or perhaps only a few times in their life.

And it was normal for children and teenagers to walk to school and be out and about without any way to contact them.

I suppose I understand that younger people feel anxious about being out of touch though I think it's very mentally unhealthy. But I am always surprised when older people do and talk as if the idea of being out of touch is unthinkable and dangerous. Did they just stay in the house until cell phones were widely available?

His tragic death has made a number of us examine how we approach life limiting risk.

I don't drink or smoke, wear bike helmets and reflective gear and drive sensibly in the hope that I'll be less likely to die early. I have advised my daughters they must now share their locations with their phones as they are forever going off on random hikes into the countryside.

Normalising the challenging of 'Are you sure dear we wouldn't want you to come a cropper would we?' is a change I'd like to see in my family.

Poor poor MM I can't stop thinking of his final hours and how desperate and ill he must have felt. And poor poor Clare and how devasted she must be by this tragedy and loss. It's very very sad and thought provoking.

@headstone That is interesting. But I don't believe it is known by many people, or has been communicated effectively.

I'm almost 50. I run and swim long distances and to do this I do have to push myself. Not to the extent that I feel is risky but none has ever mentioned any risk or vigorous exercise to me.

I'm often surrounded by people well past their 40s who are also pushing themselves physically.

There is a general feeling that what we are doing is good for our physical and mental health. We are encouraged to participate regardless of our age.

If this is risky then I'm really disappointed not to have known about it.

I agree with this.

And the reason I speak out is there is a nasty underbelly ( evident on these forums) of blame that accompany these control mindsets. Going to the gym or eating certain foods, above all not being obese- God forbid: those NHS crippling gluttons - will win the day.

Ergo, if you don’t win the day, you brought it on yourself.

And I just don’t think it’s that simple. The oldest people I have known have been little old ladies who never perspired, let alone set foot in a gym, and ate scones every day for afternoon tea. With jam.

A lot of the early demises have been people who did everything they could to stave it off ( including a couple of sad cases of that heart failure during sport: I forget the acronym) .

People just need to have a little more humility about the human condition. And a little more appreciation of each and all of us while we are here.

I think the majority rather than the minority don't have much control. Yes, the risk of some diseases will increase with lifestyle, particularly type 2 diabetes but in the majority it has quite small impact on risk and is more down either to genetics, random mutations or external factors which can't really be controlled such as virus.

“Grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

Exactly, we do have control. We have control every day. Like we cross the road at a sensible time rather than when a car is coming, we don't go swimming in rough sea, stick metal knife in toaster etc.

We can make choices to be healthy to avoid disease as much as we can

There is no god or fate deciding, who has our names written on a list! Some things are out of our control but many things are within it and we are constantly doing little risk assessments.

There is a huge difference between 30 and 40 degrees. If the ambient temperature is above body temperature it is much more difficult to function. I have lived in hotter countries and most people will stay in the shade if they can if it is close to 40 degrees.

Yes I agree with this - and actually I think it’s why the MM tragedy has struck everyone so much. He was a kind of poster boy for the “ I can take control of this mortality thing” movement.

I don’t mean to deride the enormous assistance he gave to people with pre diabetes etc. But I think the way the public embrace this type of advice falls in the same category as that whole fish oil thing years back. Robert Winston, among others, discussed how fish oils could help with certain cognitive issues. That prompted people to start stuffing children, pregnant women etc with fish oil tablets in the bid to build a super brain.

Yes, there are things we can do that tend towards promoting health, but that doesn’t guarantee we will pass through the pearly gates in the precise ranking order of average step counts or level of commitment to a Mediterranean diet. But the modern mindset is so geared towards trying to control the uncontrollable that the relatively limited impact of this in the whole mix of genes, chance, disease etc doesn’t sink in. It’s as if buying a peloton should come with a certificate of five years years stay of execution issued by the Grim Reaper.

Another thing that walkers should consider carrying is a whistle. You might not be able to see people, or you - if weakened and dehydrated - you can't keep shouting. But blowing a whistle can attract attention.

What people do in 'hot countries' seems pretty irrelevant to Dr M's situation

He had arrived from the UK the previous day where the temperature was around 16 degrees

On the mountain slopes the temperature was nearer to 50 degrees than 40 degrees
and there had been a meteorological warning for high temperature that morning

So not a resident of a 'hot country' And not acclimatised to the huge jump of 35 degrees between UK and Symi

So true, so many died from heat building the Qatar world cup stadiums and they had lived their lives in hot countries. I know people who lived there and the school day finished by 1pm to avoid the heat. Air con everywhere. People didn't go out in sun in the heat of the day unless for very quick moving A to B
I lived in the ME myself but wasn't as hot as qatar, I love walking but was warned never to go in heat of the day. I went to some ruins once in my 20s and nearly passed out, the heat/sun bounces off the light rocks which makes it worse. The time I got sunstroke I wasn't even moving, just by a pool there.
I was a silly Brit who'd never really been into sunbathing and tanning and just drank up all the sun I could when I first arrived, like I'd been starved of it in the UK. The family I was staying with thought I was mad. It was a harsh lesson but has stuck with me, the sun is not to be fucked with

@milveycrohn
"In otherwords, instead of looking at it, as his decisions led to his death, maybe the heat was making him make unwise decisions."
I think that's an excellent point and beautifully made.

No, that's not unreasonable at all - I do it myself often in summer, usually without a hat, never an umbrella, or a water bottle, and I'm in my 60s.

It was me that mentioned people in hotter countries live and work in hot weather - and I can assure you that there are countries where people don't have siesta time. A hotter country doesn't necessarily mean it is roasting hot every single day, but many countries have temps in the 30 - 40 degree range and people function just as normal.

He went on what should have been a 30 minute walk to the bay in 35 degree heat wearing loose clothes, a hat, an umbrella and with a water bottle.
I don’t think he had any reason to think this was unreasonable.
You do realise the heatwave we had in 2022 was a week at nearly 40 degrees in the south of England.

As I said, the majority DO have some level of control. It's a minority of people who die from childhood cancers, or other diseases with no known lifestyle causes, or from genetics that can't be mitigated, or from truly random acts outside their control. To say we've no control, for the majority of people, is completely untrue. And, no, of course we're not going to live forever, but it IS within our control to mitigate risks, make healthy lifestyle choices, etc. To say we have no control is just abdicating all responsibility for ourselves and our loved ones.