To think bullies and evil people never change even when they grow up?

It would be interesting to get a teacher’s perspective- most of them probably think bullies are made at home. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

stopthepigeonstopthepigeon · Today 13:12
I think adolescence is a bit early to write someone off. Few people are at their best when teenagers.
That said torturing animals is fairly extreme behaviour.

Torturing animals when young is always taken very seriously by psychiatrists. It's a strong indicator of issues such as psychopathy. Many killers started on animals.

It's most definitely not just part of growing up!

I don't think they change, no.

I think they 'forget' very conveniently. Or minimise their behaviour as a 'bit of fun' and 'just teasing and banter', kids being kids'. Of course they mature and perhaps become more conscious of their behaviour - or (my cynical mind thinks...) aware that it's unacceptable to most people and adapt or mask it accordingly.

Listening to parents talking about their and other children is very revealing! I think you can spot the ones who went in for a bit of recreational bullying when young.

❤️

I think adolescence is a bit early to write someone off. Few people are at their best when teenagers.
That said torturing animals is fairly extreme behaviour.

This genuinely made me well up (I’m pregnant and hormonal). I’m so so sorry about your mum, but so glad for you and little Stacey.

This is my thoughts and experience.

I was a hateful nasty little bitch as a child. Particularly horrendous ages 7-9. I bullied multiple people I was awful. At the same time I was being severely abused at home though and was either jealous , looking to take out my anger somewhere and part of the emotional side of abuse would be my mother pointing out certain girls and saying ‘I like her better than you and I don’t even know her’ or ‘she’s prettier than you’ or ‘I wish you were like her ‘ or she would be kind to girls in my class of course I then started bullying those girls immediately I detested them I would even dream about hurting them because I was so unloved and jealous.

Once I got to age 9 one girl I started bullying walked up to me one day and said ‘ why are you doing this ? We could be friends instead’ and she held my hand. I then became absolutely obsessed by her she was a year older and she was so kind to me , her name was Stacey. I never bullied anyone again but for a time I was awful but people can change

If a bully knows he is doing bad things and still does them - what is there NOT black and white? He does it consciously, with a clear intent to hurt somebody - is there anything left for discussion? Really?

Because you're talking about a child who is not yet fully developed. Of course hurting another person is wrong, but the law - and most people - recognise there can be mitigating circumstances.

Mitigating circumstances aren't a 'free ticket' to hurt other people - but civilised societies recognise that there are circumstances in people's lives which can help produce bad, and sometimes terrible, behaviour. That doesn't necessarily mean the person is beyond help and is incapable of reform, particularly if that person is a malleable child or young person.

This is incredibly simplistic thinking, OP. And it doesn’t answer the question of why you posted if you’re sure you’re right and you’re not willing to take on board any different views?

By "functional", I DO mean decent - which is the word the OP to describe the erstwhile evil classmates them in her first post.

Well, somebody with a job and a family and not in prison says nothing to me about a person's character. I personally wouldn't trust them with anything.

By "functional", I DO mean decent - which is the word the OP to describe the erstwhile evil classmates them in her first post.

Do you resent these (in your view) iredeemably "evil" children for having grown into functional adults with seemingly happy lives?

"Functional" adults can still be very horrible people. Don't need to look far. See how people behaved during covid mess. I bet they were very happy too.

Do you think same is true of the reverse? Nice kids will never change so can never be horrible adults?

Nice as in well-behaved, or nice as in genuinely good people?

I believe people can change. I have. My thoughts, views and actions are very different to when I was a teenager.

Do you think same is true of the reverse? Nice kids will never change so can never be horrible adults?

You seem a very black and white thinker, OP - a bit 'your way or the high way'.

I'm not sure why you posted in AIBU really. Your mind is already made up. "Evil" children, regardless of whatever abuse or crap they may have been experiencing themselves at the time, can't change. Ever. And whilst most people here would be reluctant to say they'd met an irredeemably "evil" child, your class appears to have been hoaching with them.

I'm definitely not a glass half full kind of person but your way of looking at the matter is a bit depressing, even for me.

Do you resent these (in your view) iredeemably "evil" children for having grown into functional adults with seemingly happy lives?

Ex Best Friend and exDP are lovely people most of the time and both very kind BUT they are both narcissists and bullied me mercilessly some of the time. Both of them conveniently forgot about some of the nasty things they did to me. Nobody enjoys fessing up, least of all narcissists. (I no longer have anything to do with either of them. I don't know what they were like as children)

Some people do change. Some people do not. Regardless, you are not obliged to forgive/ forget.

I think actions speak volumes. Some people really do grow up/ become better, they often show genuine remorse.

Some people really were clueless children, who did not comprehend the impact of their actions.

Some were horrible bullies, and remain so.

I think you have to judge each individual on their own behaviour then and now.

Much easier said than done though!

I think some remain the same. Which is why its a struggle making friends with other school parents or toddler groups.
For women they can try to push others out of the group so they stay closest to their favourite. They also manipulate their childs friendships.

One boy in dd class has been a handful since reception he can make loud 'jokey' comments about other kids. He is very clever. He may stop eventually , but school are likely failing him as well as the other child by never pulling him up on it.

There was a bully at primary school in the year above me that took a particular dislike to me and gave me a hard time at any opportunity.
30 years later I was walking down the street past some cars that were waiting at traffic lights, I became aware of the driver of one of them staring at me as I approached and as I passed by he glared at me out of his open window. I realised it was the same bully and was trying to intimidate me. He's still an arsehole.
Part of me wanted him to get out the car and have a pop at me.
I'm not 7 anymore, Mickey, see how it works out for you now.

you could do with taking a bit more interest in human behaviour before writing off a large proportion of the population as evil and likely to stay that way.

Depends if you understand the damage you caused and do you have any remorse.

It is interesting how easy it is to discern the former bullies and the bullied here. Like in those threads about OW, where one can easily see the wives and the OWs.

I was both, which blows that theory out of the water.

Bullies ALWAYS know what they are doing. Always.

Also not true. I was autistic and didn't know it. I copied to fit in. Unfortunately the role models I chose to copy were my siblings, who bullied me mercilessly from the day I was born. When I look back to school, I was pretty horrible, saying all the unkind things that popped into my head without a thought for anyone else's feelings. I thought I was being funny, because whenever I had got upset, my siblings told me I was overreacting because they were 'only joking'. So of course I thought my victims were overreacting too.

Many dysfunctional families have the kind of dynamic where one child becomes the repository for everyone else's negative feelings and behaviour. Unsurprisingly, that child ends up 'acting out' all of the accumulated pain, which is why you've seen families where everyone appears to have been raised the same way but only one has gone off the rails. But the whole family is out of balance, not just the one.

Anyway, all of my stuff was a long time ago. I've had an autism diagnosis, many years of therapy and am no longer in contact with my family. And I've definitely changed.

I'm not saying all bullying comes from a place of victimisation, but a great deal of it does, which leaves open the possibility for change and growth, and that was certainly true for me. Perhaps other bullies start off nasty and stay that way. My real point is that bullies, like almost all groups we like to label and 'other', aren't some homogeneous group who all behave the same way and are driven by the same impulses. They have as much opportunity to change as most of the rest of the population, and perhaps slightly more incentive, given they are generally unhappy and disliked.

I don't believe in evil or that anyone is born evil. But many, many families have unresolved intergenerational trauma that affects children from day 1, which is why it looks that way.

I don't want to be unkind, because it's clear you're hurting from past experiences, but I think you could do with taking a bit more interest in human behaviour before writing off a large proportion of the population as evil and likely to stay that way.

If I turned up at my kid's school and saw the teacher was the boy who cornered me in an empty classroom and groped my breasts, crotch and arse while his two mates blocked the door until my shout summoned a teacher, I'd hit the roof.

Same with the girls who used to beat me up.

Which is in no way to minimise his victims' suffering (s I said, my son was among them), but I don't think this child is 'evil', no. I think he's been (probably permanently) warped by his parenting.

Jon Venables?