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Original poster

If anyone works in the nhs please can you shed any light on this holiday allowance?

106 replies

nalzer · 08/06/2024 18:06

I want to know if my ex (Dd’s) dad is telling me the truth.

He says if he doesn’t use his holiday allowance then he doesn’t get to roll it over or get paid for it. Surely you get paid for holiday if you don’t take it?? That’s what’s always happened in my work but I work in the private sector in finance.

He is basically saying he hasn’t been able to take the leave and now will lose it and not be paid for it either. Is this right? He is a fellow if that makes a difference.

OP posts:
ALittleBitAhAh · 08/06/2024 19:40

I'm an NHS manager and keep an eye on leave being booked - if staff are not managing their leave we would proactively book periods of leave in. If he's a doctor, as a few have said, it would be different.

Keepthosenamesgoing · 08/06/2024 19:12

nalzer · 08/06/2024 18:39

@Hopefulbride18 he said he joined the trust last July on a 12 month contract. Could this be a lie?!

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If he's on a 12 month FTC then he'll have lost a bunch of leave already at end March and then he'll accumulate again from April

innerdesign · 08/06/2024 18:56

Working in the NHS and working in the NHS as a doctor are very different things. They have different pay scales, leave policies etc, so most of these replies probably aren't that relevant. It seems unlikely he hasn't taken any leave, or had some weekends off, but it's irrelevant really isn't it? If he wanted to make time to see his child he would have. That must be hard to hear, but I think you know it anyway.

milkysmum · 08/06/2024 18:55

Definitely use it or lose it in the NHS. At your managers discretion you can carry over a maximum of 5 days, but even that's not a given.

Badknitter · 08/06/2024 18:52

I work in the NHS and we can carry over 5 days with line manager’s ok, but we also have to state we have taken statutory minimum. We can buy a week’s leave but can’t sell back, although I know you can in some trusts.

HemmAyes · 08/06/2024 18:51

nalzer · 08/06/2024 18:48

Thanks everyone. I just don’t know whether anything he tells me is the truth anymore. He hasn’t taken one day off to be with dc at all and I have had to cope with it all (I also work long hours). He does have form for not taking leave but ffs he has a child, surely you’d WANT to spend some of it with them

I'd think it's extremely unlikely he's worked a full year and not taken any annual leave!
Most Trusts encourage staff to book leave and point out to them when they have a lot left, telling them to get it booked in. It does happen from time to time that leave has to be cancelled due to staff shortages

Trainday · 08/06/2024 18:51

Our policy is use it or lose it, you can carry-over max 5 days, but they have to be used by end March (Jan-Dec leave year).

Where a staff member has genuinely not taken leave because of operational difficulties, rather than just not booking it until the last minute, I do exceptionally agree for a few extra to be carried over. I also remind staff regularly to get it booked.

DragonGypsyDoris · 08/06/2024 18:49

If someone hasn't taken any annual leave at all, it is also a management failure. Good managers should proactively manage planned absence.

Original poster
nalzer · 08/06/2024 18:48

Thanks everyone. I just don’t know whether anything he tells me is the truth anymore. He hasn’t taken one day off to be with dc at all and I have had to cope with it all (I also work long hours). He does have form for not taking leave but ffs he has a child, surely you’d WANT to spend some of it with them

OP posts:
bluebirdsong · 08/06/2024 18:46

It’s use it or loose it in my trust, however I’ve never had a manager that would have allowed someone to have no annual leave with hassling them about it for a year!

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 08/06/2024 18:45

FooFighter99 · 08/06/2024 18:44

He’d only be able to carry a certain amount over. And only if his Trust can afford to let him

I don’t think people realise the financial impact carrying leave over has, especially on Trusts how are already struggling to balance their books

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Again - if he has been prevented from taking his statutory minimum leave (20 days), this is illegal and he'd have every right to take them to tribunal. "We can't afford it" is not an adequate defence.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 08/06/2024 18:44

FooFighter99 · 08/06/2024 18:42

Only if their Trust can afford it. Mine certainly can’t 😭

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Not being able to afford it doesn't exempt the trust from complying with employment law. Anyone who has been prevented from taking leave, and then had the leave removed would have a case to take them to tribunal. It's illegal if you have not been allowed to use your allowance.

FooFighter99 · 08/06/2024 18:44

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 08/06/2024 18:42

Those are exceptional circumstances though - if something has literally prevented him from taking his leave (as in your example), he would be able to discuss it with his manager/union and likely get some/all rolled over or paid (which is what your consultant should do - he'd have a strong case to argue in tribunal, and the union should support him).

Preventing an employee from taking their statutory minimum leave, and then removing that leave, is against employment law. It is not defensible in any way.

Edited
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He’d only be able to carry a certain amount over. And only if his Trust can afford to let him

I don’t think people realise the financial impact carrying leave over has, especially on Trusts how are already struggling to balance their books

Crazymadchickenlady · 08/06/2024 18:43

Use or lose in our trust and can only carry 5 days over

Kit543 · 08/06/2024 18:43

No you take it within that financial year or you lose it, what’s wrong with that unless they didn’t let you actually take the leave? (Or couldn’t because on maternity leave etc in which case you can usually carry it over) Not sure if rules different for Drs

plasq · 08/06/2024 18:42

In theory Our NHS Trust allows a maximum of 5 days to be carried over. If you don't use it you loose it.

After huge problems with accumulated leave during covid the message now is unless there are exceptional circumstances you must use the leave within the leave year.

FooFighter99 · 08/06/2024 18:42

Destiny123 · 08/06/2024 18:38

Drs can get paid for unused leave if can show have been denied ability to take it cos of staffing which is v common especially when rotating often

Doesn't make sense to though as only paid for an 8h day despite our normal day shift being 10h

Only if their Trust can afford it. Mine certainly can’t 😭

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 08/06/2024 18:42

FooFighter99 · 08/06/2024 18:39

We’ve got a Consultant at our Trust who has somehow managed to carry over about 2 years worth of leave - due to covid and staffing issues etc, he hasn’t been able to take his leave. Now he’s facing the prospect of losing it and not getting paid for it.

It does happen.

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Those are exceptional circumstances though - if something has literally prevented him from taking his leave (as in your example), he would be able to discuss it with his manager/union and likely get some/all rolled over or paid (which is what your consultant should do - he'd have a strong case to argue in tribunal, and the union should support him).

Preventing an employee from taking their statutory minimum leave, and then removing that leave, is against employment law. It is not defensible in any way.

SauvignonBlanche · 08/06/2024 18:41

I’ve been an NHS manager for years and ‘use it or lose it’ is definitely the case.

5 days may be carried over in ‘exceptional circumstances’ only in my Trust and there would need to be a compelling reason.

CormorantStrikesBack · 08/06/2024 18:41

nalzer · 08/06/2024 18:39

@Hopefulbride18 he said he joined the trust last July on a 12 month contract. Could this be a lie?!

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That would sound quite possible to me for a doctor.

Cheeesus · 08/06/2024 18:41

12 month contract could be right, but what’s happening at the the end of it? And why can’t he take some of it now?

FooFighter99 · 08/06/2024 18:41

nalzer · 08/06/2024 18:39

@Hopefulbride18 he said he joined the trust last July on a 12 month contract. Could this be a lie?!

Show quote history

No, his leave will be pro-rata’d depending on how many full months he’s worked.

CormorantStrikesBack · 08/06/2024 18:40

Hopefulbride18 · 08/06/2024 18:29

This seems a strange time of year to be having this conversation... The NHS leave year runs April to April. So he just needs to take all of this year's leave by next April.

Would it be different for drs as their jobs tend to start in august?

whyamisotiredallthetime · 08/06/2024 18:40

We have a buy back - max of 37-5 hrs
And can carry over 37-5 if arranged in advance
If gets to 3/12 prior to year end then it's use it or lose it if not discussed

Sunshineandrainbow · 08/06/2024 18:39

My London trust this year I wasn't even able to carry over 2 hours.

Only time we were paid for unused leave was in covid when they wanted us to work instead of use leave!