Why do people say ‘all the parties are as bad as each other’ ?

Of course he knew it wasn’t emergency care. I actually hope he was lying in saying he wouldn’t pay for medical treatment for a family member… let them wait in pain.. ☹️

It's not though, is it?

Thatcherite reforms, neutering the unions and opening up markets was a clear ideological choice (whether you support it or not). Callaghan wouldn't have done it.

Blair massively growing public sector investment, ditto. Major wouldn't have done it.

Cameron/Osborne austerity, ditto. Brown wouldn't have done it.

The Brexit referendum, was really about Tory party management. I don't think Corbyn would have done it.

The Covid response was very distinctively Johnsonian (instinctive liberalism, distrust of technocracy, chaotic style).

The Tories have pretty much disintegrated since, but May was a very particular personality, and Truss even more so (which other leader in either party would have done her economic policies?), and Sunak.

Starmer and Corbyn quite different.

Alternative histories where we got David not Ed Miliband plausibly would have been extremely different (no Brexit?).

Do you think the above analysis is wrong, or that Thatcherism, Brexit, public sector investment (or not), etc have basically had no significant effect on life?

How can anyone in charge of a party (where there are tons of people within the party with different views all pulling in different directions) be totally honest when the definition of their job is too be diplomatic and somehow get that lot to agree amongst themselves and then sell it to the public as vaguely consistent?

@Diefrausagtnein - what has any of this got to do with public schools? Euan went to the poshest Catholic state school in London, no different. They are all at it, so what?

Isn’t it easy to seem sensible and honest when you’re not the one in power..

you can’t compare the two in the same way because we don’t know what labour would have been doing, could have been better, could have been worse.. there’s no way of knowing.

anyone can sit on the sidelines and criticise.. or pass judgement with the clarity of hindsight, it doesn’t mean they can and will do things any better.

@Iwrotethelyricstoaxlf - pick the least worse option for your value system. But please vote!

“Yes. What I can’t understand is how many wealthy home owning people over 60 voted to leave when they weren’t for one minute affected by the EU, particularly ones living in the south. If anything they were quite happy to use polish plumbers and Lithuanian builders.
Most people I know who voted to leave did it because they had nothing else to lose. Cameron had gutted the country (some parts of it anyway), they hated austerity, they despised Osbourne. Even hated Thatcher from years back. It was two fingers at the establishment even though we were told by them that it would crash the economy.”

Are you talking about the odd privileged 69er baby boomer sticking it up to the establishment in one last hoorah? Before they get wheeled off to a care home? Where there is now nobody left over to wipe their bum?

I think it is probably a bit of a cliche. The Brexit vote was primarily linked to level of education or lack thereof I thought rather than age alone?

I am a staunch Remainer. However, I fully accept our responsibility collectively in voting for Brexit. We all need to. No point in pointing the finger after the event.
What we need to ask is how do we get politics away from Reality TV show style Trumpism to sensible nerds having a rationale discussion like we witnessed on TV the other day. Personally, I trust either of the nerds more.
Hopefully we have had our populist time with Brexit and are ahead of the curve as compared to the rest of EU. Welcome back to the time of boring nerds in charge that pontificate and can’t do much damage. I will take that. But I will still vote Lib Dem - because I now fear any type of huge majority. Thanks to the Tories for that one.

Because they don't think things are going to magically get better with a Labour government. it's not about justifying voting Tory, it's about disappointment with the current Labour party (at least in people I know). People can look at what both parties have announced policy wise and not be keen on either. Tactical voting and anyone but the Tories has been a thing for a long time!

Calling people thick just because they don't give the answer you want isn't particularly constructive or helpful, And I don't see many posters saying anything actually illuminating or helpful to illustrate why they're so much better informed than someone who doesn't want to vote blue or red.

I haven’t RTFT, just skimmed, but it’s prompted me to look at who is standing in my area

we have Labour, LibDem, Conservative &Unionist Party, SDP (didn’t even realise they were still going) and Green.

2/5 candidates haven’t even bothered with any blurb

One lives so far out of the area (couldn’t get more polar opposite) so no idea what the reasoning is behind that.

Never heard of any of them, and the ones that have put a blurb up are pretty uninspiring.

Is there a none of the above option, as I can’t even pick the best out of a bad bunch.

“Could you give me some examples of where Labour siphoned off hundreds of thousands for their young mistresses or billions in contracts to their friends?”

They all do it. Tony Blair’s son Euan is now almost a billionaire. I am sure he is talented but a lot of it will be due to the network his father & mother built through their time in office.

It is what happens on the ground. They all get rich eventually, even if it is after the event. So what, it is not exactly the easiest job being PM and the kind of abuse you endure and the risk you and your family are under with all the nutcases running around spouting hate is it.

What do you mean you're not being listened to?
Brexit voters got every single thing they voted for. The country took a massive economic hit, young people had fom removed from them, companies, free from EU regulations and free to pump shit in the sea, even the dice was rolled on peace in NI just to please you lot. We have all paid an enormous price so you can get what you wanted, how you complain aren't being listened to.

@Kendodd no it makes me not want to vote for anyone at all...

@SoEmbarrassed2024 So what does not mean they should automatically get to the front of the queue just because they are in government

Should have been made to wait like everyone else.

Usually said by Tory voters.
My reply is that if they're all the same, why don't you vote for one of the others then?
That usually makes them change their tune.

True, but I can't imagine ANY Government that wouldn't push their Prime Minister or President to the front of the queue in the same circumstances

Interestingly in my local town I haven't seen any Conservative boards or posters in peoples windows or gardens at all whereas people are displaying for Lib Dems and the Greens. This counters the claim 'they are all the same' as people are happy to be associated with other parties but no-one seems to want to publicise they are a Tory now!

I don't think you can take much from that, the only ones I'm seeing in my area are independent

For me, it's this. I'm not in the UK. But politicians are the same where I am: pretty much in it for themselves and their huge salaries and pensions. I do vote but am under no illusions that it changes a lot.

@SoEmbarrassed2024 we cant, but politicians can. Look how quickly Boris Johnson was treated for Covid. Normal hospitals at times were overflowing.

@Diefrausagtnein Because they are.

Im not voting as there is no point. I'm still going to struggle to afford anything. I dont get what labour will do to sort the country out its in a right mess.

Only way I would vote again is if the whole country didn't just keep switching between labour and conservatives over the past decades

Because both major parties of the UK Uniparty have the same boss, the World Economic Forum.

https://www.weforum.org/people/rishi-sunak/

https://www.weforum.org/people/keir-starmer/

Starmer I suspect meant emergency care which for most of us would be NHS.

You can't get emergency care privately