Page 11 | To think parents of private education school children will be fine

Bluewhitered · 2024-06-06T20:04:30+00:00

I’ve seen lots of threads on this topic recently. It would be great to have it’s own section so those who want to chat about it with fellow parents , can without an argument. But private school parents and their children!! We will be just fine. There’s so much smugness and bitterness and hate coming from people who think it’s great the VAT will be added and force some out. In fact I don’t disagree - add VAT on ! Great, and then we can take either our state places up … win win we have more money to spend on holidays, deposits for houses for our kids, private tutors, extra cirricular activities etc and we can probably move to better areas with the outstanding state schools or OR we pay it it we can afford to keep our children there. On some of the independent school committees they are working out how to charge the fees differently so the actual fees we will pay 20% on are low and the rest of the money is on stuff that’s exempt from VAT. They are also looking at changing the nature of the schools so the children get their state education allowance and then pay extras on top- like you would nursery extras. The chance of labour implementing it is low. There are solicitors looking at it now and whether they can change the law to allow it. So either way we’re not in a bad position - as most of the threads argue we are the wealthiest in The UK- some can’t afford food bills etc so we are incredibly lucky to have choice and it is true we must have money to even contemplate spending £25k on each child in school.

Original poster

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 23:52

ByPeachJoker · 06/06/2024 23:11

I set up a thread a few days ago about the responses and assumptions that automatically get thrown around about private school parents and it descended into the usual class wars.

With regards to people continuously going on about PE parents not making 'sacrifices' - all I will say is that many of them DO make sacrifices to send their kids to private school. Far more than the 7% of the population who send their kids to private school can afford to send their child/ren to private school but some choose not for their own reasons. The problem with MN is that nothing is viewed as relative or within the context of a particular group of ppl and everything gets brought down to the lowest level in order to somehow dismiss another viewpoint - apparently because there is a mother who has to go without food so her kids can eat, this means I am incapable of making a sacrifice.

On the VAT issue, we'll obviously suck it up and pay and whilst I haven't put out a post complaining about it, I don't agree actually with VAT on education. I still haven't seen a convincing argument anywhere that actually justifies the VAT on education which is a legal requirement up until the age of 16. The act of paying for education might be a 'luxury' but education up until the age of 16 is not. It's also interesting how passionate people have suddenly become about imposing VAT on school fees as if it was obvious all along...

Yes - lots of other westernised counties and those in the EU will not put VAT on their school fees for private schools. It’ll just do what has happened with businesses who won’t register in the UK and pay tax as there’s better tax breaks aboard so they register off shore. Same could happen- England won’t attract people to the country due the increase - better value to educate their children in non VAT paying countries.

I only agree with it if we get our state education funding from the government. At the moment it ofsets the VAT but as soon as it’s added then we would be paying twice . I can’t see it not being fought high up with lots of legalities stopping it being implemented.

OP posts:

Original poster

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 23:46

Chickenuggetsticks · 06/06/2024 23:02

We aren’t in the Uk but if it were me I’d be just looking at a grammar schools (tbf, I’d have applied to grammar if I was in the Uk anyway). I expect more competition for catchment property and grammar school places. Of course it won’t affect the state school Starmers’s kids are going to because you need a few mill to live in that catchment area. The hypocrisy there is mind-blowing.

This is what people are saying will happen when speaking to parents. Why not move to the leafy lane schools and move into the catchment areas. I suppose it does what labour wants and forces the government to up their game for state education and places literally over night! I think it’ll be interesting the see it pan out!

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CluelessInBognor · 06/06/2024 23:46

We did our sums before dd joined school and realised it was more affordable for us to join private school than to move to a catchment area with a great state school. Still cant afford to move. Even with the 20% increase it still works out cheaper to go private.

Also, there are no grammar schools in our shitty little town.

Original poster

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 23:44

KnittedCardi · 06/06/2024 23:08

It doesn't take many to off- roll to put a school in jeopardy though. It closes. You then have, as we gave locally, a school, from nursery up to 18, trying to find places for their kids. So no places for 2 or 3 year olds so their parents can work. Kids in year 10 and 12 half way through GCSE's and A levels, no where to go and no guarantee they can slot into another school at the right point who do the same subjects with the same exam boards. No-one seems to care, indeed many seem to delight in the misfortune.

Exactly this…. It’s an ill thought out policy to cause division and get voters to vote. I think the knock on is too huge for them to follow through and Keir is probably shitting himself that it’s the only policy he has suggested , that can make some money for everything he will magically sort out. Albeit the money it would make is a huge 2% of the annual education budget for rate schools- so a drop in the ocean!

OP posts:

Original poster

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 23:41

I’m glad I started this post - I wanted to
point out the ridiculousness of it all. Those revelling in parents who will struggle with the increase are vile! I hope to all those who are Not able to afford the increase but need to stay in the schools, either it won’t be imposed (most likely or to the full extent ) or your school will let you off and absorb it. We are potentially in this position where we are questioning whether it’s worth it, we might move ours, however those smug revelling mumsnet posters who think this is great and the poshies have been torn down a peg or two - I’m saying yeah ok it’s not awful is it! What a privilege we have to then pocket the money and go on some lovely holidays and move to a house with a pool! Always been the dream! So either way we’d be happy so no need to be smug with us- we are incredibly lucky and will have more disposable income!

Those posters saying haha you’re all panicking around now about it- not really. It’s a very first world problem and either option is fine: we can do like Kier and move to an area with great schools, as we have the ability to move and pay for houses in those areas.

I don’t disagree with the VAT being added as long as we then get our government education allownance between 7-10k annually. This is what some independent bodies are now looking to implement , like the nursery add on. So labour get their headline but it’s useful . I also think if it goes on school fees , we need it in healthcare and universities. All of which I use or have been to! Let’s not discriminate!

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CluelessInBognor · 06/06/2024 23:17

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We had a similar experience. Our hearts just broke when dd kept telling us about kids spitting at her, yelling at her or pushing her off her chair, etc. It really affected her confidence. At that time we had a a bit more of disposable income so we thought spending it on making dd's life a bit easier was totally sensible. Now we are not anymore in the same financial position but yes still lucky and privileged enough to be able to make it work. The teachers and the head are lovely but with that many children it's hard to keep an eye on everything that is happening. I still think it's a very good school and I wonder if the kids who were mean to dd have grown out of it by now. I still wish things had been different and she could have stayed at her local school, which was so much more convenient in so many ways but now it seems too late to take her out. We are kind of stuck with the school ajd just need to suck it up.

Also, most kids who joined dd's school after year 1 seem to have done so because they were bullied in their old school.

ByPeachJoker · 06/06/2024 23:11

I set up a thread a few days ago about the responses and assumptions that automatically get thrown around about private school parents and it descended into the usual class wars.

With regards to people continuously going on about PE parents not making 'sacrifices' - all I will say is that many of them DO make sacrifices to send their kids to private school. Far more than the 7% of the population who send their kids to private school can afford to send their child/ren to private school but some choose not for their own reasons. The problem with MN is that nothing is viewed as relative or within the context of a particular group of ppl and everything gets brought down to the lowest level in order to somehow dismiss another viewpoint - apparently because there is a mother who has to go without food so her kids can eat, this means I am incapable of making a sacrifice.

On the VAT issue, we'll obviously suck it up and pay and whilst I haven't put out a post complaining about it, I don't agree actually with VAT on education. I still haven't seen a convincing argument anywhere that actually justifies the VAT on education which is a legal requirement up until the age of 16. The act of paying for education might be a 'luxury' but education up until the age of 16 is not. It's also interesting how passionate people have suddenly become about imposing VAT on school fees as if it was obvious all along...

RadRad · 06/06/2024 23:11

MsFogi · 06/06/2024 21:21

OP has it occurred to you that many parents at state schools already have money to spend on holidays, deposits for houses for our kids, private tutors, extra curricular activities etc - we're not all rubbing our two pennies together you know (and that's just at the comprehensives, if you go to the grammars many parents are very wealthy). I don't think anyone has an issue with your child taking up a space in a state school and you may be surprised that you are not in some wealth league of your own!!

But many people have an issue that the very wealthy in the grammars or comps you are referring to are not going to be taxed more, but we are ALL paying for their privileges.

Icepop79 · 06/06/2024 23:10

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CluelessInBognor · 06/06/2024 23:10

I'm in the funny position that I've always been totally against private schooling till my dd was absolutely miserable in her state school. She couldn't deal with the large class size and lots of kids were unkind to her. We panicked. Obviously we threw out all our values hoping that we could buy her a more pleasant day with the disposable income we had then. I still am against the idea of private schools. All schools should be free and of decent quality. I also don't like lots of things about dd's private school but she's happy there.

We will struggle with the increased fees. Her school increase the fees anyway by upto 10% every year and they have already said that if labour comes into power they will increase by 20% again. Our fees are about 12k at the moment so even if lots of kids leave the school will be able to fill the seats with kids leaving more expensive schools and joining ours. So the school isn't worried and they obviously just care about their bottom line and not individual families.

I'd love to go back to one of our local state schools but it's not as easy as that. Unless you join in reception it's almost impossible to get a seat later. There are two decent primary state schools close to us but both already have a long waiting list.

And then dd is going to join secondary soon anyway and I really don't want her to go to any of the secondaries in our little town. From what I've heard racism and bullying are a massive problem and we aren't white.

So I don't know what to do. If we had known that there was a chance of fees going up massively we probably would have moved dd to the other state school rather than private. Now that she's settled in her school and considering how hard it is to actually get a place it's not that easy to move her out.

We will manage because we are lucky ajd privileged enough to manage but it still sucks especially since I still have to vote Labour. In the long run shooting myself in the foot is still better than another conservative government.

KnittedCardi · 06/06/2024 23:08

It doesn't take many to off- roll to put a school in jeopardy though. It closes. You then have, as we gave locally, a school, from nursery up to 18, trying to find places for their kids. So no places for 2 or 3 year olds so their parents can work. Kids in year 10 and 12 half way through GCSE's and A levels, no where to go and no guarantee they can slot into another school at the right point who do the same subjects with the same exam boards. No-one seems to care, indeed many seem to delight in the misfortune.

Chickenuggetsticks · 06/06/2024 23:02

We aren’t in the Uk but if it were me I’d be just looking at a grammar schools (tbf, I’d have applied to grammar if I was in the Uk anyway). I expect more competition for catchment property and grammar school places. Of course it won’t affect the state school Starmers’s kids are going to because you need a few mill to live in that catchment area. The hypocrisy there is mind-blowing.

Pussycat22 · 06/06/2024 23:00

The schools will probably have tax avoidance on their curriculum!!!!

Fuzziduck · 06/06/2024 22:58

Regardless of what your view is, the numbers don't stack up.
Nearly £10k per child to teach in state schools is the number being quoted this week. So these parents are saving the tax payer nearly £10k per child paying for it privately.
The £1.3b increase due to vat will be impacted as parents will move their kids, or not start them privately, and already state schools are wait listed in some areas - parents are already applying to move.

Original poster

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 22:57

Itllfalloff · 06/06/2024 22:46

‘ The only ones I’m sad for is 2 are consultants at the hospital’ - ah yes, consultants. Famously some of the most salt of the earth, WC and poorly paid people you’ll ever meet.
I too would just jack in a career that took 15 + years of study and specialist training to do to prove a point, become a SAHP, not adapt my position, hours, or role at all in any way shape or form,
just walk.

Are we slamming consultants now 🤣

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MyNameIsFine · 06/06/2024 22:55

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 22:02

Also I thoroughly begrudge it when people say we all work hard. I’m a prime example that that is not the case. I work in a government level job , and do a very mediocre job at best- yes I get up each day and do the school run, go to work (put in minimal effort in wherever possible) and go home and do the house and tea. My husband however is a CEO and he works much harder and more hours than me - he flies round the world working, taking phone calls all hours of the day- sleeps for 5 hours a night and missed out on a lot so he definitely earns his salary compared to my lazy half arsed self 🤣

So, he's the one working hard to pay the fees then? Somebody is working hard to pay the fees - or has worked hard, in the case of grandparents. What's your point?

Original poster

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 22:50

Itllfalloff · 06/06/2024 22:42

Glad you and your ilk will be okay, OP. I actually agree with you on this.
We use state school and do have enough money for everything else so also lucky.
Nice to see some parents happy to pay the VAT.

This is a lovely message- half of mine were jokes because I do think some of the posts I’ve seen are ridiculous- they come across as entitled and showing off. We owe the money, we should pay the VAT. Yes we make choices to pay for education but when people say they don’t go on holiday or have new cars- so what- people who don’t pay for schools still don’t have these. Half my messages are joking at how ridiculous some sound. I do appreciate those who can’t afford and have children who need their for SEN needs etc but I don’t doubt that will be sorted for them as it’s being discussed now and I don’t think it’ll be 20% added , it’ll be fought in court. I think state schools do need money , I don’t think the policy will raise the money they want, but improving state education is a must. Sometimes we need to think we’re lucky , I work with people who have nothing and complaining our already optional fees are going up , doesn’t sit well with me!

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MyNameIsFine · 06/06/2024 22:49

Do we really need another thread on this? Yes, many parents and children will be fine. But the ones that won't be OK aren't going to feel any better because some stranger on mumsnet tells them to stop worrying and think about people who can't afford rent! If it wasn't important to them they wouldn't be sending their children to a school they can't really afford. Try minding your own business.

Naran · 06/06/2024 22:49

MyKidsAreTooNoisy · 06/06/2024 21:07

Not quite sure what the point of this thread is, or what makes it special compared to all the others. But your comment about how private schools are scheming to find a way round the tax tells you a lot about these ‘charitable’ institutions…

all institutions and individuals minimise their tax bills, within the confines of the law

entire departments are dedicated to this kind of work

Itllfalloff · 06/06/2024 22:46

‘ The only ones I’m sad for is 2 are consultants at the hospital’ - ah yes, consultants. Famously some of the most salt of the earth, WC and poorly paid people you’ll ever meet.
I too would just jack in a career that took 15 + years of study and specialist training to do to prove a point, become a SAHP, not adapt my position, hours, or role at all in any way shape or form,
just walk.

Itllfalloff · 06/06/2024 22:42

Glad you and your ilk will be okay, OP. I actually agree with you on this.
We use state school and do have enough money for everything else so also lucky.
Nice to see some parents happy to pay the VAT.

Original poster

Bluewhitered · 06/06/2024 22:25

Endlesssummer2022 · 06/06/2024 22:08

DH and I had a discussion on whether we’d remove DC and put into state. We can afford the uplift but the whole furore got us thinking ‘what if’?

We put DC in private simply because they got in and we could afford it, but we’d be saving £££ if we took them out. This could be used as a housing deposit for them. We’re looking at the highly rated schools in the area to transfer DC to. We figured we can pay tutoring on top of required. Kind of hoping other PS parents aren’t thinking along our lines as I’m sure the cost of tutors will increase if they demand goes up.

Exactly my point- I have 3 children in private schools. Jokes aside from this post- Im questioning whether we want to spend it. Made us think differently- There are outstanding and lovely Grammar schools near us and then we can use the money elsewhere . Some parents at our school will move their kids abroad , mainly the armed forces and those who work internationally and their children board. Others have said they will move to state as they are great schools and they didn’t choose them because of prestige but rather the wrap around they gave so the parents could hold down their jobs. We chatted and some said they’re happy to leave their job and do the school runs instead at state schools as they can no longer continue working. The only ones I’m sad for is 2 are consultants at the hospital and use flexi boarding for their children so they can do their shifts overnight. They will need to pull their children out as they will no longer afford and of them one said they will take very early retirement so in effect losing a well skilled NHS doctor in the process.

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Screamingabdabz · 06/06/2024 22:15

Hoppinggreen · 06/06/2024 21:39

I sent my DC Private so they could avoid the offspring of lower class oiks

Show quote history

Ah at last…a private school parent who is actually honest about why they really choose it. We already knew the cuntish reasons and vile bigoted values being modelled to the poor kids but glad at least some of you are owning it. Well done.

Endlesssummer2022 · 06/06/2024 22:08

DH and I had a discussion on whether we’d remove DC and put into state. We can afford the uplift but the whole furore got us thinking ‘what if’?

We put DC in private simply because they got in and we could afford it, but we’d be saving £££ if we took them out. This could be used as a housing deposit for them. We’re looking at the highly rated schools in the area to transfer DC to. We figured we can pay tutoring on top of required. Kind of hoping other PS parents aren’t thinking along our lines as I’m sure the cost of tutors will increase if they demand goes up.

Swingingvvoter · 06/06/2024 22:07

To be fair there will be a lot of money spare for tutoring if private school parents go to state.

It will be two tier eduction.
Many parents in state have to tutor anyway