To think parents of private education school children will be fine

I agree with OP. They will fine and those who won't deserve their misery for pretending to be rich.

@oberst

i hope the school does it's very best to minimise the impact on your fees. It's people like you who I feel very sorry for. I hope you can keep DS in his school!

There are many other countries which do not see it as ‘I’ll conceived’:
https://www.edchoice.org/school-choice/faqs/how-does-school-choice-work-in-other-countries/

Presumably the grandmother would still be able to pay for the school this way.

What you are describing as the ‘societal pot’ means the school fee payers, with children who are not taking up state school places, are effectively paying an extra form of tax. Now they will also be taxed VAT on this ‘societal’ voluntary contribution.

My post from 1.10 explains that it’s not how tax works, we don’t put in the same or ‘draw’ out the same - it provides a societal pot.

Your ill-conceived suggestion above would benefit the wealthiest private school parents and penalise parents like the poster above where the school contributes 70% and the grandmother 30% - way to go 👏

Yep, the house he bought years ago before areas became wealthy and gentrified.

Our house is a bog standard 3 bed in what was, when we moved here, a pretty normal area. 20 plus years on, it's worth about 6 times what we paid for it and is near the most sought after state school in the city - which it certainly wasn't when we moved here.

People could accuse us, as a left-wing family of being 'champagne socialists'

Don't people understand about areas changing?

How about we put VAT on fees but allow those parents who keep their child in the private school a tax break to the tune of the exact same amount the state pays for a child in the state system? They could only be given it if they are paying more than that in tax from their day jobs (not avoiding it through self employment, for example). That would be fair to both sides of this argument, surely?

tbh, there is so much poverty in this country. I am sick and tired of these wealthy pampered clowns pleading poverty over the Vat issue. Of course the majority will be fine and those who really cannot afford it will have to make do with state schools like the rest of us.

It has to do with the issue of how we sort out the problems in state schools - which is the issue, right? The government has been tackling bullying in the workplace because the number of people suffering from stress is costing the economy, and, ultimately, costing the government in lost tax revenue and paying out sick benefits. Child mental health services are overwhelmed. So, if one family has found a solution so that their child can be a well adjusted member of society, why knock it?

I’m not in this position but I know several parents with children in private school. Obviously I don’t know the fine details of their financial situation but they’re all clearly very wealthy and I’d be surprised if they can’t swallow the extra fees TBH.

For those who really can’t, finding a place at a state school shouldn’t be a massive issue either, especially at primary level. Many schools in the area are undersubscribed and talking about closing or reducing classes per year. All good and outstanding rated as well.

Because some of us aren't wealthy who send our kids to private schools and by moving them to state could have a detrimental effect and impact on our children. I am hoping that his school will help, they've not said too much yet.

Bullying happens everywhere, in all schools(even private) and can happen in the work place. Not sure what relevance this has to VAT on private schools.

Some of them won't be fine, and some of them will be OK, but they won't reach their potential. It's not just the government that needs to sort this out. How about parents teach their children not to bully people?

As do all the parents of bullied SEN kids who use state schools and who form a massive majority. Our children cope, yours will too.

It doesn’t stop charging VAT on private education being the right thing to do.

Not really. My son attends the local private school. He got bullied at our local state to the point he was self harming and then wanted to kill himself. He has SEN, but not 'enough' to go to a special school. The funding for children with SEN is non existent.

He receives a 70% bursary and my mum helps for the 30%. I am extremely lucky and forever grateful. I am also absolutely terrified of him going back to a state school where he was physically and mentally bullied daily.

He now thrives and I think if I told him he was going back to state school (he went to three, before pulling him out to go to the private school) he would turn back to the anxious and self harming child he was before.

We aren't all rich tories. I just want my son to be safe.

You could vote lib dem instead

@Bluewhitered We chatted and some said they’re happy to leave their job and do the school runs instead at state schools as they can no longer continue working.

In all honesty do you think the parents of the 93% of children at state schools gave up their jobs in order to do school runs? Isn't it more likely that state school working parents use breakfast and afterschool clubs and / or childminders.

Private schools may infact recruit more overseas students if they have less domestic students applying. 20% more is not going to make a lot of difference to affluent people who want the prestige of a UK education for their children, in fact, the more expensive, the more exclusive, so it's unlikely to be a major deterrent.

Your argument is fatuous @Bluewhitered as your DC are entitled to a state school place, if you choose to pay for the service elsewhere it does not entitle you to a rebate. Just as people without children don't get a rebate for their contribution in tax when not using the state school system. I don't have an NHS dentist but I don't expect the NHS to rebate my dentistry costs. Providing state education benefits us all as a society, not least in providing the future workforce that we will all need to rely on.

I appreciate you don't want to pay more for the private education service you have chosen (let's face it, nobody welcomes an increased bill ) but Mumsnet is full of threads going over the same ground ad nauseum.

Some private schools might even end up becoming mainly or entirely about afterschool tutoring classes, extracurric and enhanced holiday care, topping up the educations of those using state schools who want something a bit extra.

Whether any of this actually improves or worsens social mobility is a difficult question. But the sector itself will "mostly" do fine, is my hunch. Some schools will close, but that was always going to happen anyway, given demographic trends.

In all seriousness, I think the VAT thing might not be a bad thing for private-school-using parents long-term, as it seems to have focused schools' minds a bit more on frugality and seperating-out what parents genuinely do and do not want to pay for.

I think we will see schools breaking up what they do into segments - basic tuition offers on which VAT is levied, and then extracurriculars and wraparound care and extras, which should escape VAT - and parents will have more freedom to pick and choose from what they want, and more of these extras will be made available to state school parents as well (for fees, rather than free of charge). In other words, schools will probably start behaving more like businesses than charitable foundations.

Some areas have changed waiting lists to prioritise kids from private school. I live near 3 LAs who expanded catchments of outstanding schools into deprived areas (and of course ratings dropped) and now want to reverse the decision to take in the private school kids. There’s even serious discussion about making all out of catchment pupils (even existing ones) reapply for their places next year.

I wonder how long it will be before other LAs do this.

Also, a Hindu organisation wants to set up a private school that only charges £3k a year. If that happens and they get the funding of ISKON and BAPs it’s game over for the entire private school sector in the county.

Yes but it's different joining at reception or later.

Most people will get into the school in their catchment area if they join in reception. If people had known they might not have gone private in the first place. It's quite difficult to leave after reception especially if your child is reasonably settled in their private school.

Removing your dc from private education is fine, it's your choice.

Expecting them to walk into a place at the best school near you is unrealistic, these are the ones that are full.

There are plenty of spaces available in state schools though.

there's a bit of a financial crunch happening everywhere so many are feeling the pinch.
education in the uk seems to be very variable from community to community and even within communities.
and i don't think i have read any posts where a majority of parents are pleased with the special needs provisions and deterrent policies for antisocial behavior.
so right now i think it's an easy one to attack.
meanwhile grammar school parents who according to research captures a similar demographic are keeping their head low or feeling very smug that their child is attending a state school (with a very private like feel and population).

Did you know that very few regions in the U.K. have grammar schools?