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To think that 4/5 year olds should not be learning about d-day deaths?

183 replies

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 16:54

4 year old DS came home from school telling us about how they learned about D-Day, including how many people died, and the fighting. Whilst I agree kids should learn about this I definitely don’t think it should be foundation age children! DS suffers with nightmares and night terrors and already know this is going to cause many of them in the next few weeks. Husband says I’m overreacting, curious to see other mums opinions?

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ByBrightSloth · 06/06/2024 18:57

Other parents children are psychopaths

Serencwtch · 06/06/2024 18:54

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:24

Please see other comments regarding my health, and his anxiety. Nothing to do with games or film. He is also aware of family dynamic as you describe.

I have read that & I'm sorry to hear about your health concerns & also your DC mental health & behavioral issues. Poor kid is really up against it. However trying to blame that on asking children to have respect for those that lost their lives so that you & your DC can have the life you do is just astounding.
When I was that age we learned the reason why some children had grandads but some were taken to soon & the generation before learned why only some children were lucky enough to have their daddy alive.

Idroppedthescrewinthetuna · 06/06/2024 18:50

@UponReflectionLake it's hard. It's crap but honestly they grow out of that stage but sheltering from real life is not healthy for them. All you are doing is kicking a can down the road cos one day he will be learning about it but in greater depth. Which if he doesn't learn some things now, it will be a huge shock later on.
Although as his parent you want to protect him from being scared. You need to deal with the root cause of the anxiety.
It is great Cahms is involved.

I don't know what kind of parent you are, but I found honesty was always the best policy (age appropriate) and also shutting down anxiety's if they are not rational.

So for instance, if you want your child to not believe in spirits. And he says soldiers, the queen, is going to get him. Shut it down. Give a cuddle and say 'silly sausage how can that be when they are dead' let him answer you and let him know its not how it works.
If you are a spiritual family...give a cuddle and say 'noo that wouldn't happen, spirits protect us but can't get us'
Ok you don't need to use those exact words but you get the gist.
My daughter was always scared that someone was hiding in her room. I asked her whee, she said under the bed. I laughed and said 'well can't be that scary then, you have a ton of dolls and barbies under your bed, what kind of scary person hides with barbie dolls unless they want to play with them'. We started to take the mick out of a scary monster playing with barbies. From that moment on she has always kept a barbie under her bed. Even now, for the scary monster to play with. Now it is just a cute little thing she does to make me smile.
I'm typing this and questioning what kind of weird mum am I 😂

Gruffallowhydidntyouknow · 06/06/2024 18:48

A much bigger issue is children getting to theif teens and thinking call if duty is acceptable entertainment. Maybe they been ti learn the reality young so they respect what happened and don't think war is exciting.

I would be very surprised if a 4 year old has enough theory if mind to get nightmares from a Reception level d day description

Runningupthecurtains · 06/06/2024 18:41

PuttingDownRoots · 06/06/2024 18:18

In your sons case... I think you and school need an agreed plan covering History, RE and current affairs, for example missing assembly as he has a particular reason for not coping.

But in general... 4yos can cope with learning these things. Mine was that age during the 100years sine ce WW1 commerations... it wasa Military school, but it was all handled sensitively (especially since they are aware Soldiers Dying isn't a historical thing for Military children, it can unfortunately be reality).

Yep mine were 4 and 6 for the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 and their dad was slap bang in the middle of a 6 month tour of Afghanistan at the time. They participated in all the school learning, attended the village beacon lighting saw the poppies at the Tower of London etc without ill effect.

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:40

LlynTegid · 06/06/2024 18:37

I don't think in general it should be ignored and not covered at school. In the OPs case there may be some adjustment such as not attending certain lessons.

War, however justified and necessary in some cases, is not all pleasant and hollywood drama.

Thank you, I think this post has helped understanding that most that age would cope. It can be hard to differentiate between his age and his anxiety with him being so young. Something I hope to get better with as time goes on, and with the help of his mental health team.

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LlynTegid · 06/06/2024 18:37

I don't think in general it should be ignored and not covered at school. In the OPs case there may be some adjustment such as not attending certain lessons.

War, however justified and necessary in some cases, is not all pleasant and hollywood drama.

ByBrightSloth · 06/06/2024 18:36

It’s an issue for your child. Other children are less sensitive than others. Yours is more sensitive and caring

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:35

FacingTheWall · 06/06/2024 18:32

Whilst night terrors can be made worse by anxiety, they don’t in themselves give a child nightmares. The two are in completely separate stages of sleep. Dreams don’t happen during night terrors.

You cannot be informed of everything that might make your child anxious. Anxiety is a normal, everyday emotion and how you model coping with it is far more important than trying to avoid anything which brings up the feeling.

He has both, separately and are dealt with in different ways. He has counselling and we are aware of this and how to help in each scenario.

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Ilovelurchers · 06/06/2024 18:35

Firstly, I am sorry to hear about your health struggles, and your son"s complex issues around anxiety. Both sound very upsetting and stressful.

Have the professionals involved with your son's anxiety issues suggested a plan of action - specifically in regards to the issue you raise here, which is potentially upsetting content?

The vast majority of children of his age are able to cope completely fine with learning about history, including war, and the deaths of individuals/groups who lived a long time ago. And with learning about the death of a distant celebrity such as the queen. The school are on the face of it doing nothing wrong, in terms of teaching this content to the vast majority of children. But perhaps your son needs a specific plan in place that his teachers can follow, because of his specific needs?

I assume the health care professionals have said it is appropriate he is shielded from such content at this stage? On the face of it this does seem surprising as an approach - death is an unavoidable part of life, and it seems sensible to introduce children to it gently through history and fiction. However, I am no expert, and if the child psychiatrists (or similar) involved in your son's care have advised he should be shielded from such content, the school should of course follow their advice.

Itsonlymashadow · 06/06/2024 18:34

If he has such an imagination it causes anxiety, surely he could interpret anything in a way that could give him nightmares?

I get it, my son suffered really bad with anxiety after my mum died. She was a fit 66 year old in the morning and gone in the afternoon. The fact that someone could be here one minute and fine the next really shook him. So I am not unsympathetic. But school can’t plan what they teach around ds.

Fair enough to ask for a heads up, but you can’t expect them to only mention things he is comfortable with.

LimeandCourgette · 06/06/2024 18:34

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:16

Absolutely but that’s just proving my point… if I’d had known what he was taught I could correct him (another commenter mentioned about poppies and what they were taught at his age). It also shows that he wasn’t ready to learn about this as he’s put two things together and got something else. This may be because of his own anxieties or his age, however it does show he really shouldn’t have been in that lesson today and thankfully and EY teacher has commented aswell agreeing.

But surely you've put two things that your child has said together and thought they meant something else. From the way it reads, you thought when he was referring to red you interpreted it as blood rather than poppies.
If you're instantly thinking of the worst case scenario, your child will be picking up on that.

Schools do discuss topical events in class, in assemblies etc. Maybe keep an eye on what's coming up so you can discuss it with your child in advance.

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:33

Idroppedthescrewinthetuna · 06/06/2024 18:30

I am also going to add, I am talking from experience. Having an ill parent can cause anxiety in children. My daughter is 16 and grew up with her dad having kidney failure, transplant, transplant rejection, then at 13 he took his own life.
Please please if you haven't already get the child into counselling. Not to actively help with anxiety but to allow him to play in a safe place and talk about hospitals, worries, death (if that is something that may happen - sorry to say it like that) cos honestly it really does help.
My daughter, although she has been through some actual horrible shit she is a confident young woman who has tools now to combat her sadness and anxiety. To the point she helps me if I feel sad about something.

He has counselling with cahms. It’s been a very difficult time for him and he’s struggled to adjust as I’m in the hospital often. I’m so sorry for your loss. It helps to know things will improve eventually, just tough when trying to navigate all these things when it’s hard to know what’s coming next.

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FacingTheWall · 06/06/2024 18:32

Whilst night terrors can be made worse by anxiety, they don’t in themselves give a child nightmares. The two are in completely separate stages of sleep. Dreams don’t happen during night terrors.

You cannot be informed of everything that might make your child anxious. Anxiety is a normal, everyday emotion and how you model coping with it is far more important than trying to avoid anything which brings up the feeling.

Idroppedthescrewinthetuna · 06/06/2024 18:30

I am also going to add, I am talking from experience. Having an ill parent can cause anxiety in children. My daughter is 16 and grew up with her dad having kidney failure, transplant, transplant rejection, then at 13 he took his own life.
Please please if you haven't already get the child into counselling. Not to actively help with anxiety but to allow him to play in a safe place and talk about hospitals, worries, death (if that is something that may happen - sorry to say it like that) cos honestly it really does help.
My daughter, although she has been through some actual horrible shit she is a confident young woman who has tools now to combat her sadness and anxiety. To the point she helps me if I feel sad about something.

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:28

PuttingDownRoots · 06/06/2024 18:18

In your sons case... I think you and school need an agreed plan covering History, RE and current affairs, for example missing assembly as he has a particular reason for not coping.

But in general... 4yos can cope with learning these things. Mine was that age during the 100years sine ce WW1 commerations... it wasa Military school, but it was all handled sensitively (especially since they are aware Soldiers Dying isn't a historical thing for Military children, it can unfortunately be reality).

Thank you, yes I think that’s the way forward. I think it can be hard for me to differentiate between it now with his anxiety as this post definitely shows most 4/5 year old would cope. It’s helpful to know going forward with it that we can work on it.

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10storeylovesong · 06/06/2024 18:27

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:26

Serencwtch · 06/06/2024 18:21

He needs urgent support for his mental health & behaviour problems. D day is definitely not to blame.

He is recieving support, from Camhs and a liasion. Hence my frustration the school hadn’t discussed with us first. Aware now it’s not about age and more my sons own perceptions due to his anxiety.

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UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:24

Serencwtch · 06/06/2024 18:18

When I was that age we learned why some children had a grandad & others didn't.
The generation before why some children had a daddy & others didn't. Everyone understood & had respect.

Has your DC perhaps been exposed to too much fantasy war games, films etc. Thats more likely to be causing their problems.

Please see other comments regarding my health, and his anxiety. Nothing to do with games or film. He is also aware of family dynamic as you describe.

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Serencwtch · 06/06/2024 18:21

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 17:43

Apologies I typed quickly and should have mentioned his anxieties night terrors etc Originally. It’s not about not knowing these things, more about the appropriateness at this age talking about bloodshed which is what he has discussed since me posting this. It doesn’t sound like it has been done age appropriate. Learning about soldiers and how they serve a country, about veterans, different parts of military etc this in my eyes would be appropriate. I don’t think a 4 year old should learn about “France turning red” as he describes. It should absolutely be built upon with context which I could’ve helped with had I known this would be taught to him this year.

He needs urgent support for his mental health & behaviour problems. D day is definitely not to blame.

PuttingDownRoots · 06/06/2024 18:18

In your sons case... I think you and school need an agreed plan covering History, RE and current affairs, for example missing assembly as he has a particular reason for not coping.

But in general... 4yos can cope with learning these things. Mine was that age during the 100years sine ce WW1 commerations... it wasa Military school, but it was all handled sensitively (especially since they are aware Soldiers Dying isn't a historical thing for Military children, it can unfortunately be reality).

Serencwtch · 06/06/2024 18:18

When I was that age we learned why some children had a grandad & others didn't.
The generation before why some children had a daddy & others didn't. Everyone understood & had respect.

Has your DC perhaps been exposed to too much fantasy war games, films etc. Thats more likely to be causing their problems.

upthespoutagain · 06/06/2024 18:17

He has seen today's newsround. It shows France coloured red to mark the area invaded by the Nazis. You can watch it on I player to see how child friendly it was.

Runningupthecurtains · 06/06/2024 18:17

Do a Google image search for D-day maps (for some reason it won't let me post any). Among the first images are a topographical map of France showing the landing areas marked in red and a map showing the allied territory in blue and German held areas in red. These are probably the type of image he was shown, they are totally benign.

UponReflectionLake · 06/06/2024 18:16

fieldsofbutterflies · 06/06/2024 18:08

With kindness, you don't know that that's what they were taught.

Absolutely but that’s just proving my point… if I’d had known what he was taught I could correct him (another commenter mentioned about poppies and what they were taught at his age). It also shows that he wasn’t ready to learn about this as he’s put two things together and got something else. This may be because of his own anxieties or his age, however it does show he really shouldn’t have been in that lesson today and thankfully and EY teacher has commented aswell agreeing.

OP posts: