Green Party pledge to reduce c section rates

I'm not doing that at all. I'm as appalled by this policy as much as anyone on this thread.
It's not whataboutery AT ALL!
The Green Party are not going to win the election! At most they'll get a handful of seats. So, no policy of theirs will be anything like as dangerous as any Labour or Tory policy. This policy will not come to pass.
If you care about women's health and babies lives (which I'm sure you do) Labour's policies on Gaza and the NHS should trouble you way more than this.

@TryingToSeeTheFunnySide Stop whataboutgaza’ing on women’s health issues in the UK.

I may have different priorities to you.

Also @MariaVT65 The Green Party are now listening to experts on this, and reviewing this policy -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/green-party-nhs-lbc-b2556628.html

Of course, it was a hideous policy. Well , I don't know the details, but it certainly sounds that way. But, I do have to be fair here, and take note that they appear to be listening and amending.

Weirdly specific. My youngest is 21 months and the maternity care was poor. Shortage of consultants made it hard to get the right appointments, an appointment system that kept issuing me several booking appointments, wrong dates for other appointments. And the ward was so inadequately staffed their only priority was getting you out about 28 hours after major abdominal surgery. I also got told on two occasions the best pain relief for me was paracetamol. I’d suggest these issues need addressing before they worry about how we give birth!

Also @MariaVT65 are you consistent with this? You know pregnant women, babies and children of all ages are enduring a living hell in Gaza right now. That's actually happening, in real time. Not just a pie-in-the-sky fantasy policy of The Green Party that will never come to pass.
Neither the Tories or Labour are doing anything to help, or calling the genocide what it is. Do you bring that up with Labour canvassers?

If you are door knocking for a party in the run up to an election, you need to be prepared for constituents to bring up anything, especially if it’s a contentious issue which has pledged by the party. They are supposed to canvass and report back from the doorstep.

Being young and sweet is not relevant.

The people knocking on your door won't have invented this policy.
Most of The Green Party canvassers I've encountered have been sweet-natured, well-intentioned young people, who care passionately about the environment and peace. I couldn't be anything other than kind to them.
A better course of action would be to write to Green Party HQ.

The Green Party hate women. They are showing us who they are, in plain sight. It’s chilling.

WTF

Thank you for posting this op, as I wasn’t aware of it. If any Green member knocks on my door in the next few weeks, i shall be giving them a bollocking.

The greens have a kind of lovely perception - want to save the planet, wholesome, caring. In reality, they are fucking dangerous

The, now pretty right-wing Labour Party (and the Tories obviously) are far more dangerous, as they are on course to actually be in power.
Their stance on Gaza is infinitely more deadly than any Green Party policy. As is their lack of plan to save the NHS.

Listen, I don't like this policy either.
But, you know, even if The Green Party had a policy to turn the sky purple and rain jelly beans from the sky, I still think a vote for them is a benign act, because, with our current system they stand no chance of getting into power.
Many voting Green this time round are doing so as a protest vote against Labour's lurch to the right. Also, to protest against government inaction on the climate emergency; and the failure of both parties to call out the genocide in Gaza.
Does it mean they/we support every Green policy? Of course not.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/green-party-nhs-lbc-b2556628.html

They're reviewing the policy, thankfully.

The greens have a kind of lovely perception - want to save the planet, wholesome, caring. In reality, they are fucking dangerous - this policy is outrageous. The medical professionals at the birth should decide whether a c section is needed. That’s the end of it. What a bloody ridiculous thing for them to have a policy on. I hope it loses them votes. Loony.

Interestingly the default in china is a CS mainly due to a lack of staffing.

Cs can be scheduled 9 to 5 and once you get to a high enough rate are more cost effective than vbs (because you can staff less nights and weekends which are more expensive). Nice highlighted this and that it wasn't something to aspire to.

There are so many things wrong with this.

This was WHOs policy back in 2009. They changed it? Why? Because evidence showed that it was crucial that those who needed a CS has access to one and restrictions on them were not only unhelpful but potentially dangerous.

It highlighted that births were becoming more complex due to older first time mothers, more underlying health conditions (due to better health care ironically) and more obesity.

Then there is the nice guidelines that changed around the same point saying that anyone who wanted a CS should have access to one because the clinical risks of a planned CS v a planned VB were not as high as people had previously said and that cost differences were negligible.

Then there's been several independent reviews into maternity services - I think all of them have highlighted that a lack of prompt access to a CS has tragic consequences and that one of the issues has been ideological or structural attitudes in the workplace affecting decision making to the detriment of women. A least one has commented on evangelical ideas of natural birth by midwives were actively dangerous.

Why are the greens going against every scientific research project, NICE, WHO and numerous reports into poor maternity care in this country?

It's mind boggling just how anti- education and anti-research this is. It's fundamentally harmful to women - plenty of evidence for this being appalling.

I personally am pro home birth and pro ELCS. Why? Because this is consistent with the data and women centred care which listens to the concerns of women rather than taking a paternalistic attitude that women must do things a particular way and do what they are told.

This is a sexist policy. Pure and simple it is anti woman.

Fucking bastards trying to be regressive and take us back more than 15 years.

Sorry my comment was badly worded. What I was trying to say is most women do not have c-sections.

That Green Party policy doc from April this year gave the impression that lots of women are having un-necessary (and expensive) c-sections and that needs to stop. And that impression simply isn’t true.

If a c-section is medically advisable it should be available and neither medic nor mother should be made to feel guilty about it.

"In 1900 I expect birth was nice and natural in the UK. The neonatal death rate was 150 per 1000, ie 15% of babies died at or near birth. Now (2020) the neonatal death rate is 4 per 1000, 0.04%. So a better standard of medical care including c-sections, forceps, ventose etc has saved the lives of 14.6% of babies born in the UK in 2020."

I think I read that the biggest and fastest fall in maternal and neonatal deaths happened at a time (late 1940's to 1960's) when the caesarean rate was very low and most women were still giving birth at home. We can thank antibiotics, good antenatal care, anti-d, etc for that.

We've had a huge upsurge in major interventions in birth in a very short space of time - like over the past 6 years, but the stillbirth rate has hardly budged in that time.

We've also got a situation in UK hospitals where rates of complicated birth are significantly higher for low risk women who choose obstetric settings for birth, than for similar low risk women who choose midwife led settings for birth - and no difference in baby outcomes. Suggests there's something about the model of care in obstetric settings that may be creating problems in some women's labours that are resulting in higher rates of unplanned caesarean and assisted births.

Not wanting to sound ungrateful for modern birth technology and safe surgery btw - I feel grateful for it every single day and it saves so many lives. But there's definitely a problem with the way the system is working right now, and women are paying a high price in terms of births ending up maybe being more difficult than they should have been.

"Some hospitals might be jumping to do c sections quickly.

Or are the hospitals with a lower c section rate denying women access to maternal request c sections?"

They have to publish very detailed statistics about mode of birth - they'll give their emergency as well as elective caesarean rates.

I’m not sure I understand your post. What have I said is unnecessary?

Why do the Green Party think women should give birth naturally but teenagers should be offered puberty blockers and cross sex hormones?

Some hospitals might be jumping to do c sections quickly.

Or are the hospitals with a lower c section rate denying women access to maternal request c sections?

There's concern in maternity about the upsurge in the numbers of women having medically complicated and traumatic births. I don't think that many people who're involved in maternity care are that bothered about planned caesareans - it's the number of unplanned caesareans, inductions and assisted births that are concerning. One hospital near me now has a caesarean rate just shy of 50%, most of which are emergency c/s - but with no additional obstetricians, no additional support on postnatal, and midwife shortages. It worries me. It just feels unsafe. The Greens have put their foot in it, but the quality of maternity care and issues around staffing and capacity, all of which will be impacted by a big increase in women experiencing complicated births and the postnatal challenges that sometimes arise from them, absolutely are an NHS issue that deserves political attention.

I find it unbelievably offensive and down right dangerous that they call child birth a “non medical event” when I was being torn to shreds down there and lost a litre of blood it certainly felt medical! Is this viewpoint from some old sexist standpoint- belittling what physically happens to a woman? I spoke to my consultant just before I gave birth this year and ask why only is it in the past year the reason for morning sickness as been found ( something to do with a hormone) sadly she said it’s because women’s health is sadly neglected. Even women in a lot of pain are dismissed- I was Told I was being a pain in my first labour when I had no pain medication as I couldn’t understand what position they wanted me to go on the bed in as I needed to shut my eyes for a few moments due to the pain! I’m just glad they will never get into power- a load of crazy morons. Miscarriages are natural- doesn’t make them good!

And as far natural.. don't make me laugh. Heart attacks, presumably natural? Infections. Presumably natural? Broken bones. Presumably natural. Should they be treated?