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Original poster

For disputing my ex landlords claim on our deposit?

90 replies

Magentaplasticglasses · 06/06/2024 01:05

Sorry for the long post, I don't want to drip feed.

We moved out of a rental property last month. The landlords want to take our entire deposit. They are claiming they need our entire deposit because they apparently need to:

  • re-carpet all rooms: There were no marks on the bedroom or living room carpets, it just looks like they've been walked on regularly which they obviously have. The spare room was just used as storage for toys, board games and memory boxes because the flat had limited cupboard space. The room was unused on a day to day basis so there isn't even general wear and tear in there. The end of tenancy inspection confirms there are no marks on any carpets, just dust on the skirting boards and in the corners of the rooms, and a bit of mildew on the window due to age of the property and the living room windows being closed for a week (we moved to the other end of the country, so the property was empty for a week)
  • replace all the radiators: The landlord has decided the grills on the top of the radiators are loose, and has claimed we have damaged them. Other than turn the thermostat on and off, and adjust the radiator knob to change the temperature of the radiator, we haven't done anything to the radiators. We didn't dry laundry on them, as per our contract, and we've never noticed any issues with them. They've always worked normally and looked fine. The end of tenancy inspection was incredibly thorough to the point of downgrading one room because there was a single cobweb. They also didn't pick up any issues in their checks of the radiators, and only mentioned "a small amount of dust" on the tops of them.
  • Repaint the entire flat, including the ceilings: The walls are magnolia, so show everything. DH also has a significant physical disability and needs to put his hands on the walls to balance when he walks, which also means things wear more quickly. The landlords previously denied permission to put rails on areas where DH is prone to losing his balance, so using the wall was unavoidable.

I checked the tenancy deposit scheme, and any reported marks or scuffs on the wall, meet their criteria of wear and tear. The end of tenancy report has also graded the paintwork as "normal wear and tear". We don't smoke or vape, and we've not altered the ceilings in any way. They were also graded as white and unmarked by the estate agent, so again, they haven't picked up any issues. The landlord has declined the estate agents request for clarification about why they need to deduct the cost of painting the ceilings from our deposit.

After all of this, I emailed the estate agent, and said we will be disputing the claims about needing the whole deposit to refit and redecorate the flat, as it's clear it is normal wear and tear, and the landlord cannot charge for this. I said that ultimately the burden of proof and any costs associated with that lies with the landlord, so if he feels it is more than wear and tear, he needs to prove it.

I was very clear that we will not be consenting to any of our deposit being released to the landlord until he has provided proof that any changes to the flat are more than normal wear and tear. I also said that we are willing to pay for an end of tenancy deep clean, because the inspection reported dust and minor mildew on the window due to the property being empty. However, I expressed that DH and I would like at least 3 quotes to show the cleaners charges are in line with local prices, and that we will require a receipt to confirm the final cost of the clean, because we do not feel the landlords are acting fairly or honestly regarding the deposit.

The landlord has responded to the estate agent saying he disagrees with our dispute, he will not be sending quotes, he will not compromise on the deposit, and that he is not willing to seek further evidence that the changes to the flat are beyond normal wear and tear because he feels we are being unreasonable in our requests.

AIBU?

P.s. I'm sorry for the length of this. It became a bit of a vent post and was incredibly cathartic to write out.

OP posts:
Original poster
Magentaplasticglasses · 08/06/2024 01:50

Arseconono · 07/06/2024 22:10

Landlord is being hugely unreasonable. We had similar where a LL blatantly wanted betterment and tried to keep our almost £6k deposit

TDA awarded them £250 (I would have actually negotiated more as there were a couple of things I thought would be reasonable but couldn’t negotiate properly with them as they were deluded). It did take months though do be prepared to wait.

I'm more than happy to wait. Our landlord is also absolutely deluded. We said we are happy to accept fair deductions, as long as they provided an itemised bill. Apparently that's unreasonable. But when this goes to the TDS they're going to ask the same thing to justify costs so I don't get why they want to drag it out

OP posts:
Original poster
Magentaplasticglasses · 08/06/2024 01:39

DexaVooveQhodu · 07/06/2024 22:05

@Magentaplasticglasses so you can submit your own quotes to the Deposit Protection Scheme and say you'll agree to a deduction of that amount for an appropriate end of tenancy clean. The landlord doesn't have to tell you who they use or give you yourself any information but they do have to justify their claims to the DPS if you dispute it.

Thank you for letting me know this. I'll do that. I'm glad they have to justify claims. It wonder how they'll justify claiming for painting ceilings when the check out inspection flagged up nothing but a cobweb 🤔

OP posts:
bellocchild · 07/06/2024 23:19

SoundTheSirens · 07/06/2024 09:17

YADNBU. Been there. We had an ex-LL try to withhold part of our deposit because, and I quote "the furniture has left dents in the bedroom carpets". I'm sorry, I didn't see the clause in the lease that said we had to use levitating furniture only.

Anyway, TDS basically laughed at him. He then tried to withhold the equivalent amount from the part of our last month's rent that was due to be returned to us because he had re-let the place immediately (guess that dented carpet wasn't a dealbreaker after all, hey?) so I opened a small claims court case. It was only a couple of hundred quid but it was MY money and the principle of the thing. Anyway, he paid up before it got to court so I say go for it OP, more tenants need to stand up against the kind of grasping, greedy, bully-boys who give private LLs a bad name.

(I have also had lovely LLs too, for balance.)

Edited

We had the same problem, many years ago, and went through the Small Claims Court. The agents paid up immediately. The house we were renting was very run down, curtains in shreds, carpets thin and worn, and that wasn't our fault - it was years of neglect.

Pikapikapikachu11 · 07/06/2024 22:27

Our old lovely landlord did the same... exactly the same. Wonder if they same or related? Got full back from tds... apart from repainting scuff damage to one wall. You will be right. You should win no problem. The scheme was put in to stop landlords ripping people off. They are a different breed if human and play on tenants being afraid to stand up for themselves.

Arseconono · 07/06/2024 22:10

Landlord is being hugely unreasonable. We had similar where a LL blatantly wanted betterment and tried to keep our almost £6k deposit

TDA awarded them £250 (I would have actually negotiated more as there were a couple of things I thought would be reasonable but couldn’t negotiate properly with them as they were deluded). It did take months though do be prepared to wait.

DexaVooveQhodu · 07/06/2024 22:05

@Magentaplasticglasses so you can submit your own quotes to the Deposit Protection Scheme and say you'll agree to a deduction of that amount for an appropriate end of tenancy clean. The landlord doesn't have to tell you who they use or give you yourself any information but they do have to justify their claims to the DPS if you dispute it.

Original poster
Magentaplasticglasses · 07/06/2024 21:43

DexaVooveQhodu · 07/06/2024 09:10

Let the Deposit Protection Scheme adjudicate. You are right and the landlord is a shady bastard.

But I think it was a mistake to tell the agent that you have budgeted for the deposit and don't care too much. That might be interpreted that you'll guve in eventually.

You can get your own 3 quotes for the cost of and end of tenancy deep clean. Larger agency cleaners will have a fixed price on their website.

The agent claimed an end of tenancy clean with the cleaner they use will be £600-£800 (for a small 2 bed flat with a box room). When I asked to know who they use so I can see the prices, because all quotes I got were between £150 and £250, he said they're not obligated to disclose the details of the services they use. I've just said that I'm happy to pay for a cleaner, but if they want to use their cleaner then they can either provide a quote, or disclose who they use so I can get a quote.

OP posts:
Original poster
Magentaplasticglasses · 07/06/2024 21:28

Jesus Christ. I don't even know what to say, except that's absolutely disgusting!
I totally understand why you didn't chase though. I probably wouldn't have been more proactive if I had as much going on. I hope you're in a better position now, with less on your plate.

OP posts:
Original poster
Magentaplasticglasses · 07/06/2024 21:24

DataPup · 07/06/2024 09:25

How long had you lived there? Were the carpets new and the walls newly painted when you moved in? There are guides online for expected lifetime for certain features.

We had a similar claim for the entire deposit. Things like shadow marks from photo frames. We had shelves up on the wall in question and the photos were up on the original advertising material before we moved in. We disputed everything as fair wear and tear except for a single mark on an 8 year old carpet in the boxroom. Ended up with getting all but fifty quid returned.

Edit: the agent also tried to imply that taking it to the dispute service was an arduous process and we might not win. It was actually super straightforward.

Edited

We lived there 3 years. The carpets and walls were in decent condition when we moved in, but not freshly painted. Everything was marked 4 out of 4 when we moved in, and in terms of decoration and wear and tear, the check out inspection graded us a mixture of 3's and 4's, so there is no way it's more than wear amd tear. Cleaning wise most rooms got a 2. But I've taken it with a pinch of salt if I'm honest because the hall got downgraded a point for a singular cobweb.

I'm so glad you got your money back and so glad that you found the process easy!

The landlord really doesn't have a leg to stand on. We got a copy of the tenant checkout recommendations and the landlord recommendations. Ours just said a deep clean, and the landlords was basically recommendations to fix various bits of wear and tear. They can go to the TDS, but we now have solid evidence that the inspector has said it's wear and tear

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 07/06/2024 21:08

I just reassured him that I budgeted for the deposit 3 years ago, so it won't affect us negatively if it's sat in the protection scheme while we sort this out.

oh well said OP!

Beautifulbythebay · 07/06/2024 21:03

We have been here 9 years. Previous tenants 6. Same carpets here.

Tbskejue · 07/06/2024 20:56

We’ve had to go through the dispute resolution service twice and both times got our full deposit back minus what we’d agreed in the first place; I think landlords just do it to try their luck and they drag their heels in the hope that you agree to more to get some of the deposit back.
Both times I used the inventory from the beginning and check out to compare how we got it and how we left it and asked for quotes for anything that we needed to pay for.

Cherrysoup · 07/06/2024 20:53

Just lodge a refusal with your deposit scheme. I think carpets are supposed to be changed at least every 7 years, redecorating is ‘fair wear and tear’ but far more useful is the agent’s photos. I’m pretty sure the deposit scheme tend to side with the tenant, you should be ok if you say what you said here and have photos.

Blueuggboots · 07/06/2024 20:52

How long had you lived there and were the carpets new when you moved in? Carpets in a rental have a 5 year life.

squashedalmondcroissant · 07/06/2024 20:47

I had a LL steal claim my entire deposit once. He sent us an itemised list of all the stuff he had supposedly had to replace/do in the house (replace carpets/cleaning/repainting etc) and it very conveniently came to the exact amount of the deposit.

We asked him to provide receipts of said work/stuff to prove that he indeed had replaced and done all this, he refused. The Deposit service then said they would look into it and get back to me. I never heard back. I actually went to the house while it was still unoccupied and looked around from the outside and he hadn't done any repainting or any of the stuff he claimed.

After a few months I called them to ask what was going on and got told that they had awarded him all the money! When I questioned why they said he had put in a 'solo claim' - basically a loophole that allows the LL to claim for damages and get the deposit if a tenant has disappeared or is otherwise uncontactable. They have to send a letter that informs the tenant of their intention to do this so they have a way to dispute it and if no reply within 2 weeks they get the money.

Except he sent this letter of notification to HIS OWN HOUSE! The house we had just moved out of, where he knew we didn't live anymore! He definitely had our new address, where we actually lived, because he sent our 'itemised bill' to that address! He had our phone number and all our contact details, as did the agent we went through, but he intentionally sent it somewhere he knew we would never receive it and therefore couldn't dispute it.

Not only that but, we were receiving top up Housing Benefit while we lived there, and he tried to claim 2 weeks worth of Housing Benefit from the council AFTER we had moved out because apparently that's how long it took him to get a new tenant and he wanted the missed rent. This was also AFTER he served us with a section 21 to leave! Naturally the council told him to fuck off.

Absolute dickhead. Makes me so angry to think about it even all these years later, I know I should have been more proactive about chasing it but I was waiting to them to contact me (as I was told to do) and at the time I had a 1yr old, a brand new baby, and was working full time so I was exhausted and not thinking clearly. By the time I found out it was too late.

Good luck OP, hope you get it all back. Everything you've listed sounds like normal wear and tear, especially if you've been there a while.

MagnoliaStory · 07/06/2024 13:36

Dispute for sure. It was very easy to submit a claim online.

Our landlord tried to keep £2k of our deposit when we were renting during building works. I got £1.8k back. I should have got the £200 too, but I stupidly didn’t take a few photos at the end.

The EA Savills were assholes. I was more angry at them than the overseas landlord as Savills were the ones saying how much she should deduct!!

ItsFuckingBoringFeedingEveryoneUntilYouDie · 07/06/2024 13:19

Escothesia · 07/06/2024 12:35

Personally it sounds like the walls may need repainting?

@Escothesia Doesn't matter, as long as it is fair wear and tear, not deliberate damage. LL cannot pass their cost for routine redecorating on to a tenant.

@Crumpleton yes, it can be rented out again. The deposit is completely separate from any new tenancy. From memory and a number of years ago so could be out of date now, the LL has to have invoices for work completed AND the TDS find for the LL for the equivalent deposit to go to the LL. Just saying stuff needs to be done is not good enough, as some less scrupulous LL would try to keep the deposit and not have the work done. So, they can crack on with getting a new tenant while it goes to resolution. The deposit is 100% the tenants unless TDS say otherwise.

Crumpleton · 07/06/2024 12:47

Just a question...

Can a LL re rent a property if there's a dispute/they still owe the last tenants their deposit back or do they have to wait until its resolved.

Rookangaroo4 · 07/06/2024 12:37

How long have you been there? When our tenants left after 3 years I fully expected there to be a certain amount of wear and tear to carpets and paintwork. If someone was there 6 months i wouldn’t expect there to be much at all. Paintwork isn’t something that bothers me anyway because it’s always completely repainted before new tenants. Checks are every 6 months so it’s easy to see what needs fixing and our current tenant is very good at reporting even minor stuff straight away so it can be sorted before it gets too bad.

Escothesia · 07/06/2024 12:35

Personally it sounds like the walls may need repainting?

Lovepeaceunderstanding · 07/06/2024 12:32

@Magentaplasticglasses , landlord here.
Your landlord is taking the P! The thing is he doesn’t have your deposit and can’t therefore decide to keep it. Dispute his claims, agencies fall down heavily in favour of tenants but it looks like he has very little in the way of legitimate claims anyway. You quite rightly point out that he should expect some reasonable wear and tear. Good luck.

Pemba · 07/06/2024 12:22

We had this when we left our last rental property at the end of 2022. The landlord tried to claim hundreds. We went through the Deposit Protection Service and they ajudicated very well. I didn't have to engage with the landlord again. They awarded him £50 in the end, I think he was just trying it on

It did take over 3 months though but luckily we were not desperate for the money.

CatWithNoTeeth · 07/06/2024 12:11

My friend had to move out of a rented property after a couple of years, because the LL wanted it for his daughter who had left her husband. The LL tried to keep all the deposit, claiming my friend had wrecked the place and urinated on the radiators (???). There were reports from regular inspections from the agent saying the place was always spotless. The agent tried to withhold the reports initially, presumably thinking their money lay with the LL. My friend challenged it all and they were forced to repay. Unpleasant and stressful. I can't believe LLs are still trying this on.

AmelieTaylor · 07/06/2024 09:48

I just reassured him that I budgeted for the deposit 3 years ago, so it won't affect us negatively if it's sat in the protection scheme while we sort this out

@Magentaplasticglasses

You've done exactly the right thing! Just lodge your side of the deposit claim & keep repeating you'll let the deposits disputes deal with it.

i can't see any reason you won't get your deposit back it just sounds like wear & tear. Even where your DH uses the wall for balance (LL was a CUNT for not allowing you to put up rails) it may have made the walls grubby, but a coat of Magnolia needs to be done anyway between tenanants anyway really.

goid luck, hope your new LL is nicer!!

BallaiLuimni · 07/06/2024 09:37

The deposit scheme is (rightly) very biased towards the tenant - that's the whole point of it. Unless your LL can provide very solid evidence that they should retain your deposit you'll definitely get it back.

A LL did this to me years ago - the place had been pretty grotty when we moved in and we had actually improved it by cleaning it and keeping it fresh. I just said 'Ok we'll send our evidence to the deposit service and you can show exactly what we've damaged' and he backed down straight away because he knew the original pictures we took when we moved in would show he was full of shit.

I would always advise anyone moving into a rental to take A LOT of very detailed photos when they move in and date them. Why LLs still try this 'keeping the deposit' bullshit when the deposit scheme is so effective baffles me. I wonder if the agent is promised some sort of kickback for telling you it'll be hard to get your money? It simply isn't true.