Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

For disputing my ex landlords claim on our deposit?

90 replies

Magentaplasticglasses · 06/06/2024 01:05

Sorry for the long post, I don't want to drip feed.

We moved out of a rental property last month. The landlords want to take our entire deposit. They are claiming they need our entire deposit because they apparently need to:

  • re-carpet all rooms: There were no marks on the bedroom or living room carpets, it just looks like they've been walked on regularly which they obviously have. The spare room was just used as storage for toys, board games and memory boxes because the flat had limited cupboard space. The room was unused on a day to day basis so there isn't even general wear and tear in there. The end of tenancy inspection confirms there are no marks on any carpets, just dust on the skirting boards and in the corners of the rooms, and a bit of mildew on the window due to age of the property and the living room windows being closed for a week (we moved to the other end of the country, so the property was empty for a week)
  • replace all the radiators: The landlord has decided the grills on the top of the radiators are loose, and has claimed we have damaged them. Other than turn the thermostat on and off, and adjust the radiator knob to change the temperature of the radiator, we haven't done anything to the radiators. We didn't dry laundry on them, as per our contract, and we've never noticed any issues with them. They've always worked normally and looked fine. The end of tenancy inspection was incredibly thorough to the point of downgrading one room because there was a single cobweb. They also didn't pick up any issues in their checks of the radiators, and only mentioned "a small amount of dust" on the tops of them.
  • Repaint the entire flat, including the ceilings: The walls are magnolia, so show everything. DH also has a significant physical disability and needs to put his hands on the walls to balance when he walks, which also means things wear more quickly. The landlords previously denied permission to put rails on areas where DH is prone to losing his balance, so using the wall was unavoidable.

I checked the tenancy deposit scheme, and any reported marks or scuffs on the wall, meet their criteria of wear and tear. The end of tenancy report has also graded the paintwork as "normal wear and tear". We don't smoke or vape, and we've not altered the ceilings in any way. They were also graded as white and unmarked by the estate agent, so again, they haven't picked up any issues. The landlord has declined the estate agents request for clarification about why they need to deduct the cost of painting the ceilings from our deposit.

After all of this, I emailed the estate agent, and said we will be disputing the claims about needing the whole deposit to refit and redecorate the flat, as it's clear it is normal wear and tear, and the landlord cannot charge for this. I said that ultimately the burden of proof and any costs associated with that lies with the landlord, so if he feels it is more than wear and tear, he needs to prove it.

I was very clear that we will not be consenting to any of our deposit being released to the landlord until he has provided proof that any changes to the flat are more than normal wear and tear. I also said that we are willing to pay for an end of tenancy deep clean, because the inspection reported dust and minor mildew on the window due to the property being empty. However, I expressed that DH and I would like at least 3 quotes to show the cleaners charges are in line with local prices, and that we will require a receipt to confirm the final cost of the clean, because we do not feel the landlords are acting fairly or honestly regarding the deposit.

The landlord has responded to the estate agent saying he disagrees with our dispute, he will not be sending quotes, he will not compromise on the deposit, and that he is not willing to seek further evidence that the changes to the flat are beyond normal wear and tear because he feels we are being unreasonable in our requests.

AIBU?

P.s. I'm sorry for the length of this. It became a bit of a vent post and was incredibly cathartic to write out.

OP posts:
deviantfeline · 10/06/2024 09:32

@CallmePaul
"LL can hold it, I do, costs a small fee with a TDS provider"

Nope. If it's an AST you have to put in into a TDS. If your tenant applies to the court they can charge you up to 3 times the amount of the deposit.

aodirjjd · 10/06/2024 08:04

Don’t pay for the clean! Honestly fuck that.

redboxer321 · 10/06/2024 08:02

@DobbyTheHouseElk Re-carpet after three years?
Either you're putting down the cheapest, thinnest carpet you can buy or the tenants are trashing them. Re-carpeting after three years seems ridiculous, so long as you put down decent carpets initially, not least for environmental reasons.

Cloudysky81 · 10/06/2024 08:00

I’ve both a landlord and tenant recently.
Based off what you’ve written the DPS will find in your favour and return your whole deposit.
The DPS is, probably correctly, very weighted in the tenants favour.

Landlords mainly try things like this because they know a lot of people can’t wait to get some of their deposit back so will settle for quicker access to it.

DobbyTheHouseElk · 10/06/2024 07:52

I’m a LL <awaits flaming>

If you have been in the property for 3 years they cannot charge for carpets or painting.

If it was professionally cleaned for you, then you do need to clean it to the same standards. Usually an oven cleaning company ( assuming built in oven) and window cleaner is sufficient if you’ve cleaned everything else yourself.

The deposit scheme rarely if ever award any funds to a LL. It is all on the side of the tenant.

After 3years I would be expecting to redecorate, re carpet and deep clean before the new tenant. Replace anything worn out or damaged etc. These costs are totally mine.

Your LL hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

Loloj · 10/06/2024 07:50

You will get all of your deposit back. The landlord has to prove with detailed, dated picture evidence before and after to make any claim.

My dad who is a landlord had the opposite problem where his tenant had trashed the place causing £1000’s of pounds worth of damage but because detailed, dated and signed photographs had not been taken prior to the tenant moving in she got to keep all of her deposit. The deposit protection scheme definitely favours tenants.

redboxer321 · 10/06/2024 07:33

Also you are not obliged to pay for a 'deep clean', this should be done anyway by the landlord before a new tenant moves in. All you have to do is leave the place clean and tidy, cleared of all your stuff, and with no structural damage.

Not true and sorry @Tomatina you sound like exactly the kind of tenant I don't want. Tenants should leave the place as they found it. If it's been professionally cleaned for you, then you leave it professionally cleaned or up to the standard of a professional clean for the next person. It's not the landlord's dirt and not their responsibility to clean for the next tenant. In reality, landlords do generally have to get cleaners in or do it themselves but if they can show they had the place cleaned for when the exiting tenant moved in, they can claim that back against the deposit if the tenant doesn't clean properly.

That sounds fair to me but unfortunately it doesn't always work like that as the deposit scheme companies usually find in the tenants' favour leaving the landlord having to clean up other people's shit (literally) and out of pocket. (Insert world's smallest violin comment here).

In the OP's case the landlord sounds like he's being unreasonable and she'll get all or most of her deposit back. But please don't pretend that tenants can't be utter twunts because I can assure they can and frequently are.

Scottishshortbread11877 · 10/06/2024 07:02

Is the deposit not held with a third party? It has nothing to do with EA?

OnlyFrench · 10/06/2024 06:58

Deposit scheme works well, landlord tried to retain full deposit and was only allowed to keep £5 for a lightbulb!

Miriad · 10/06/2024 06:43

I’ve had some horrible greedy landlords in my time, before the deposit scheme was a thing. Thankfully your deposit is protected nowadays.

The landlord can’t request new replacement carpets etc even if you had damaged them, they would get the cost of a like for like replacement, eg if it’s 10yo they get the value of a 10yo carpet, not the value of a new carpet. Refuse all charges, but if you do end up paying, don’t pay the full price of new stuff!

Ginmonkeyagain · 10/06/2024 06:37

Ha! Our last landlord tried to claim £500 for a cracked fridge salad drawer and cleaning a blind (which I had given a sponge down but didn't want to wet it too much as it seemed to made of the flimsiest material known to man).

He also tried get end of tenancy painters in while we were still in occupancy, paying rent.

LittleBitAlexisLaLaLaLaLa · 10/06/2024 05:34

Definitely don’t let them get away with this, the greedy bastards. My last landlord tried similar tactics and I let it go to arbitration because neither of us were prepared to back down. Got the whole lot back. This might have something to do with them being caught lying in their own photo evidence they presented. I don’t think the rent deposit scheme people even fully looked into the claim tbh: just looked at the photos they’d clearly made shit up and gave me all of my money back. Which I never expected because there was some very small damage.

pitterpatterrain · 10/06/2024 05:23

We went via TDS they were great and certainly not years, maybe a couple of months

My DH (bless him!) had taken loads of photos when we first moved in because he didn’t trust the estate agency - thank goodness !

The landlord honestly seemed completely detached from reality - also wanted full re-painting, new sofa, new hoover, the list went on

It included gems like “get it cleaned by agency A…” which we had actually used and could re-share the receipt with TDS

We got our entire deposit back

Tomatina · 10/06/2024 02:29

TheCultureHusks · 07/06/2024 09:22

Yep, don’t even engage, just dispute it through the scheme.

You’re doing all the right things. Take a million photos, and just cheerfully tell the agent that you’ll be REALLY happy to raise a dispute and don’t care if it takes years. They know already the landlord won’t win - ours didn’t with similar. That’s why they want you to reach an agreement. Don’t!

We had a horror landlord and an equally horror agent. Same situation. Once we said we’d be raising a dispute and started talking about all the comparative photos we had at start and end of tenancy they shrugged and gave the lot back. They will not win if it’s normal west and tear. Not a penny!

This.
We had the same experience with a greedy landlord and did the same thing. Told them we had photographed everything and would be delighted to argue our case at the tribunal (or whatever it's called), and sent a detailed letter explaining why the landlord's claims were nonsensical.The landlord gave in within a week, without even asking to see the photos, and we got the whole deposit back.

Remember - it is the landlord who has to prove that you have damaged the property beyond normal wear and tear. That's the key phrase: normal wear and tear.

Also you are not obliged to pay for a 'deep clean', this should be done anyway by the landlord before a new tenant moves in. All you have to do is leave the place clean and tidy, cleared of all your stuff, and with no structural damage. Take photos.

CallmePaul · 10/06/2024 01:05

Lovepeaceunderstanding · 07/06/2024 12:32

@Magentaplasticglasses , landlord here.
Your landlord is taking the P! The thing is he doesn’t have your deposit and can’t therefore decide to keep it. Dispute his claims, agencies fall down heavily in favour of tenants but it looks like he has very little in the way of legitimate claims anyway. You quite rightly point out that he should expect some reasonable wear and tear. Good luck.

LL can hold it, I do, costs a small fee with a TDS provider

Cornflakelover · 09/06/2024 19:53

reading this I’m amazed that my sons landlord was so nice and fair
She sent my son a list of things that would be checked
and even included the names and brand of paint that was used on the doors and walls if we were going to
do any touching up
even had what lightbulb they had used 😂

we cleaned it over a few days as we had plenty of time as my son had moved out in his house that he bought

she did a pre check out and noted a few things that needs to be done
we did that and my son got back all of his deposit of nearly 2k

she actually said it was one of the cleanest flats she had seen on a check out and that it was better than professional cleaners 😂 might get a new job

Manthide · 09/06/2024 19:27

I'm sure most LLs are reasonable people and wouldn't try it on but my dc have had their fair share of shady LLs. Dd2 was working and sharing with a girl friend. The girlfriend was a total clean freak and the place was spotless, they both did a thorough job before they left but the LL withheld £200 because they found some dust on a skirting board. They were going to fight it but decided it was too stressful and accepted the loss.

Welshmonster · 09/06/2024 19:16

Does this mean LL has done all the work prior to new tenants moving in as it’s clearly uninhabitable? Or have new people just moved in?

Pemba · 09/06/2024 18:51

Swanfeet · 09/06/2024 17:17

Ultimately it’s not up to you to decide to release your deposit. Ask for it to be checked again. It sounds like your landlord is being unreasonable. However cobwebs being noted is standard and will require cleaning so will be taken from the deposit as a landlord cannot rent it out to new tenants with cobwebs present…that’s just basic cleaning on your part. Wear and tear is expected and the amount allowed under the scheme increases with the length of time you live in a property. If there are hand marks and wear to the paint it will need to be repainted before it can be let again, so I’d expect a landlord to bring that up.

Its very rare for a landlord to be able to retain an entire deposit, it will fall in your favour, but don’t expect to get the entire deposit back.

I don't think the OP should go cap in hand to the agents, if that is what you are suggesting. Sorry if I got you wrong.

The usual procedure is to go to the website of the deposit agency and claim it back. Then they will go and see what the landlord is claiming and ask for evidence from both sides. They are usually very fair. Did you (OP) take any pictures when you left to show it was left in a satisfactory state? Etc. There will be a time limit for doing this so I would crack on, and not waste time in going back and forth with the landlord, who is clearly unreasonable, and the agents, who are on the side of the landlord, HE is their client

In our case the twat of a landlord tried to claim money for cleaning, we had paid already for a professional clean (we submitted the invoice from the cleaning company), and we also submitted the agency's own check in report from the beginning of our tenancy. A comparison with the check out report showed that we'd definitely left it cleaner than we found it when we moved in! He was not awarded any extra money for cleaning.

The whole house was shabby and badly maintained, yet he also tried to claim money for redecorating. The deposit company pointed out that decoration in a rental property is only expected to last a limited number of years, which the tenancy had gone beyond anyway. We didn't do anything to it anyway.

There was one area, a crack in an upstairs window, where we had conceded and let him have the money although neither of us were aware of any incident happening, but I thought 'well we can't prove we didn't cause it'. In hindsight I wish we had challenged this too.

You don't get any brownie points for trying to be fair and nice. A lot of landlords play dirty, and this one was dreadful. The boiler was constantly going wrong during our stay, and all the plumbers hated him too as he was reluctant to pay their bills.

Brats4kid · 09/06/2024 17:23

Some landlords are amazing, ours were, when we rented. But it's landlords like yours that give them a bad name. Good luck with everything

Swanfeet · 09/06/2024 17:17

Ultimately it’s not up to you to decide to release your deposit. Ask for it to be checked again. It sounds like your landlord is being unreasonable. However cobwebs being noted is standard and will require cleaning so will be taken from the deposit as a landlord cannot rent it out to new tenants with cobwebs present…that’s just basic cleaning on your part. Wear and tear is expected and the amount allowed under the scheme increases with the length of time you live in a property. If there are hand marks and wear to the paint it will need to be repainted before it can be let again, so I’d expect a landlord to bring that up.

Its very rare for a landlord to be able to retain an entire deposit, it will fall in your favour, but don’t expect to get the entire deposit back.

DexaVooveQhodu · 08/06/2024 08:10

They don't want to give you an itemised bill or quotes because what they want to do is charge you £800 for a professional clean, then spend 30 minutes themselves with a damp cloth dealing with the dust amd cobwebs so that's £800 pure profit. This isn't your problem though. The DPS system exists to protect you from this kind of thing and I am honestly surprised they are still trying it on. I guess they make a bit from naive tenants who don't stand up for themselves.

BritinUtah · 08/06/2024 03:11

Also they can pay what they want for whatever services but the scheme said that for one they thought the quotes were excessive and awarded them much less despite them apparently already being out of pocket.

BritinUtah · 08/06/2024 03:10

Our landlords tried to take our entire deposit plus an extra 5k they said was for extreme damage. The pictures looked bad-- but because one of the reasons we moved out was they ignored crumbling ceilings, black mould, damp and falling apart kitchen! We had proof of all the twice yearly inspections us flagging these issues plus emails with all the complaints we had made to the estate agent. They were awards £300 out of the 9k they wanted. We were thorough with our proof and the estate agents did the bare minimum just said what the landlord wanted without proof or justification beyond pictures. The process online with the protection scheme was super easy and it took a few months but we obviously thought it was fairly done!

lynder · 08/06/2024 02:21

I would stop engaging and stop offering to pay anything.

He's trying to steal from you.

The deposit protection people can decide what is reasonable. It's likely you'll get your full deposit back or a small amount for cleaning taken depending on the condition compared to when you moved in.

The entire reason the agents want you to reach an agreement is because they know full well the deposit protection people are going to give you every penny back.

You can't reason with someone like him. Just raise the dispute. The default is that it's going back to you and he needs to prove why it shouldn't.

He's playing stupid games and he's going to win stupid prizes.