To feel uncomfortable in working class pubs as a woman of colour?

Either they don't care... racism runs deep and all that. Or they like the engagement it brings. The hate black mumsnetters have faced and continue to, especially when the black mumsnetters section was created was horrific. A poster was dox'd. They must gain something from it. Or just dont give a shit.

Edited because I am on daft mode today.

YABU racism exists everywhere. I grew up in a working class area where POC far outnumbered white people, the amount of abuse I suffered because I was white by certain groups was disgusting. I put this down to specific groups of men rather than an entire race or social group. Pubs were full of all sorts of races. I’ve worked in both working class and “middle class” pubs, I find racism and misogyny far worse in middle class areas.

I find it very insulting to say this kind of racism only exists in working class areas.

Virtually all areas have “working class pubs”. Islington did when I lived there until recently and so does the naice Home Counties area I live in now. Usually flat roofed for a stater.

So if we all know it’s so bad how come the mods don’t? This is what baffles me.

I’ve never posted on a large site with such bad racism.

"If you are oblivious to prejudice and microaggressions, as my friends are, you will continue to remain oblivious as the status quo suits you/ the majority so why change it to make life better for "others""

hmm @Dreamsaregood. I can't help wondering why these people are your friends if you think so little of them? Why not try? The worse that happens is they confirm what you already think. People are sometimes oblivious to situations that they have not themselves experienced, that does not mean to say they would remain so if they became aware of it. Yes, in an ideal world you should not HAVE to be in a situation where you need to explain it, however this has never been an ideal world and these people are your friends.

Nobody is dismissing how this made this lady feel but neither you, or i can say it was because she was a woman or because of her colour

Well, isn't it good that nobody is asking you or anyone else to say that. Thankfully op is more than capable of saying it for herself, and she has done, right there in the first post.

I've said it before on here and I'll say it again, the racism on this site takes my breath away sometimes. I'm another poster surprised with how much support you have had on this thread because I've seen some awful stuff written on here before. From the very same 'liberal' and left leaning posters that go on about being kind. They are Liberal and left leaning until it comes to racism. Then it's gloves off, pure hate. They just hide it behind faux innocence and dismissal.

Some people just aren't listening. They're just falling over themselves in their eagerness to make it a sex issue. You were there. You know how it felt and how you perceived it. If people can't respect that and listen to what you're saying they should stop commenting.

Gosh it's like hitting your head against a brick wall trying to get through to some people. This is exactly why it is probably pointless trying to raise this issue.

It’s almost as if some MNers have no clue about race but like to make pronouncements on it all the same.

I'm a white woman and reading your post made me a bit emotional tbh the fact that you have pointed out that it's encouraging really does say something doesn't it? It should be standard human behaviour as we are all human beings and I have this thought that humans would be better off without eyes lol i know it sounds stupid but I think it's an interesting thought lol not very practical I know and I'm not suggesting we all gouge our eyes out haha but I think humans would get along better if we took them away. I'm not explaining myself well here and I'm prepared to be piled on but it's just a thought I had lol

Management should be chucking scrotes like that out, working class pub or not.

I really hope you don’t write off all of us working class people as racist though, but I do understand the temptation to. I’m sorry that you experienced that sort of behaviour

Nobody is dismissing how this made this lady feel but neither you, or i can say it was because she was a woman or because of her colour. She has already said race wasn't mention but here you are determined to make it all about race, why? It may be because she is both or nothing to do with either.

I am white and closely connected to an elderly Asian person.

I have witnessed micro-aggression from service providers firsthand, because prejudice means that they also don’t think that the elderly Asian person is with light-haired, blue-eyed me. So they don’t think they have a witness.

Although I would far rather it didn’t happen, I do quite enjoy calling it out in those moments!

In the sort of pub you are describing I'd expect a regular would make anyone uncomfortable who was:

a man or woman they didn't know
a man or woman of the wrong class: either with a different accent or wearing clothing that marks them as different
a man or woman of colour

And all of the above would be worse for a woman

As you were meeting old school friends they likely weren't in any of those categories but you were in all them.

Your friends are probably oblivious to how life is different for you.

PS OP

YANBU

Oh, and sadly, this was not the 90s but 2014

I hear You

White, working class female here.
On the 5th Anniversary of my Nan's death, my wonderful, kind, lovely friend (a black Man) took Me to a local pub for a drink and some lunch.
He looked lovely in a suit and went to the bar and came back where we had our drink and lunch.
It was not until we got outside though that he told Me some prat at the bar (white bloke, mid 20s perhaps) had said to his mate "He must be a pimp and she his Whore!!"
Disgusting little Pig... I was ready to go back in but I didn't as HE was not worth aggro .

It sounds like you encountered an arsehole in a shithole.

If someone is prepared to behave like that towards you in public, there is really no hope/education for him. He's a moron to be avoided.

I would definitely go somewhere better.

YANBU to think to meet in much trouble free and civilised places. I really do not think those pubs would disappear any time soon. I am also much better than those places full of drunks who love to start a fight anyway so I would not spend a penny there.

I'm older than you. It's not a generational thing. I've never had a problem with going to pubs or restaurants alone.
The OP has repeatedly said it's not for her a woman thing.

I'm so disappointed in this country. We should be doing better by now. I'm white and would feel uncomfortable in such a pub, its bad enough being a woman without racism ontop. Sorry this happened op

I've never felt unsafe as a woman in a pub, and I used to drink in them weekly. I have however come across some proper racists in them. I had quite a big a row with one once when I called him out on it...to be honest I'd just be blunt with your friends. Tell them how you feel, they'll most likely be horrified they didn't pick up on it

Edit just to say I'm white, so I can't imagine how bad it is if you arent

I went into a bakery recently following a friend but not obviously together, a few people were between us as I had been paying in another shop (she is a WOC with good English but an accent) and the vibe in the room was so different to everywhere we walked in together. I felt like I had walked in on a glimpse of what she must experience often.
I don't really know how to explain it except 'othering'. There was nothing overtly wrong but it felt very strange, unfriendly and uncomfortable somehow. It was enough that I commented about it to my mother when we visited her house afterwards.
I'm in Yorkshire, the general vibe is very open and friendly, that's why it was so noticeable to me I think.

I'm sorry you were put in that position OP, as a working class person myself I hope find some welcoming spaces but pubs often do have unchecked threatening behaviour. I'm not saying it's right, but it needs men to stand up and call it out which they don't seem to want to do.

Its a tricky one @Dreamsaregood - but I think important. I would be horrified if a friend of mine felt they couldn't raise something like this with me. Maybe when you are all next together you could have a bash? Try something like 'you know that pub we all met in on XXX... well I didn't feel very welcome there, could we have a chat about it?' and go from there.
You could try 'fuck they were a racist bunch of bastards in that rough pub the other night weren't they!' 😂
I would be very surprised if you got any other reaction than horror they A)didn't notice and B) didn't think. That's the sad thing about humanity - we are so caught up in ourselves we don't sometimes think about others. If they are close friends as well they genuinely may not think of it as it isn't the defining feature of your relationship. You may be 'X, who is kind', or 'X, who is funny', or 'X, who is a bloody liability after tequila'. Not 'X, who is black and kind' or 'X, who is black and funny' if you see what I mean. Which is not good enough and needs addressing so they DO recognise it is a massive influence in how you are treated.
They won't ever be able to walk in your shoes, however education will help and empathy is a quality it never hurts to develop.

Edited because of bloody spelling mistakes due to fat fingers!!