To think that this really can't be true about young people's thoughts about Israel?

You quite literally said: “Further, why did Hamas attack so brutally in the first place knowing exactly what Israel would do to their families and their communities in
response?”
That is part and parcel victim blaming. Israel has no right to completely decimate Palestinians’ lives because of Hamas’ attacks
Since you’re so concerned about the sexual violence Hamas has inflicted, I imagine you will be as concerned about this:
https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/02/16/reports-of-sexual-assault-harrassment-in-the-idf-up-by-24/
this: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/israel-safe-haven-paedophiles-jerusalem-sex-abuse-jewish-community-watch-a7445246.html
this:
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against
and this: https://www.omct.org/en/resources/urgent-interventions/israel-inhuman-and-degrading-treatment-including-sexual-harassment-of-palestinian-women-and-girls-detained-in-neve-tertze-womens-prison-ramle

But I’m sure you won’t be, and using your reasoning, I’m sure the victims involved brought all of these cases upon themselves too.

@TrickyRibbon I never said that I wanted a two state solution. I said it appears to be the only way forward.

The UN

Sorry, just realised that's not how it reads! It's what I meant though.

Who exactly can keep being their 'fucking useless selves'?

Yep. I mean, you have young people who think one side has weapons and the other is....praying.

Plenty of young people either don't know, ignore or are in denial that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields since Hamas say it is THEY who require Palestinian blood.

👇

Wow! The anti-semites really have come out to play today.

As usual, I'm not surprised by the posts on this thread.

Fuck I feel sorry for any Jews today.

Also @mommyisbest you might want to do quite a lot more research into what dhimmi status entails 😳 You don't seem to really know what it is.

Oh, are you one of those people who doesn't realise Jordan was also Palestinian land? So Palestinians in the region had already been given a 'new identity' but no one seems to have minded that.

Why didn't Egypt and Jordan try to declare the land they had occupied as Palestine?

As I said, Palestinians have been fucked over by absolutely everyone in the region and the UN. They all just blame it on Israel though because that way they can keep being their fucking useless selves.

Another point to flag to teens is to be very cautious with the information they are seeing. When absorbing things they see on social media that make them feel a strong emotion, they should stop and verify (via independent well-researched sources, not the echo chamber of their feed) and ask "who benefits from this?".

A number of distressing images that have been circulated as being Gaza are actually from conflicts in Syria or Yemen or AI-generated. And translations of audio don't need too much tweaking to suggest something other than what was actually said (even by accident).

Disinformation and propaganda are actively widely used in this sort of conflict - including by third party bad actors.... The more horrendous the image, the more support and money donated, the more hatred generated for the other side.

Learning to think critically, to ask why, to understand that two things can be true at the same time and without emotion are key skills. Then, once you've established the facts, advocate for what you think is right with passion, but even better, actually do something to help people - don't just shout about it.

I suspect that the way a lot of young people would interpret the poll question is something like, should the state of Israel have been founded in the first place.

I would not be surprised if a lot thought it shouldn't have been done. I imagine there are a few different reasons that would be given by various people, some more ideological, some more pragmatic.

Whether they would go from there to say the current state of Israel should no longer exist is a different question I think. I would expect the more utopian ones on the left might say yes, because that group tends to assume that utopian solutions are viable. Partly because they are young and don't tend to see that often, there is no good solution to a problem.

You want a two state solution, but dont think Israel should exist. So what are the two states?

The Arab nations refused to give Palestinians citizenship??? So by that logic if we give Ukrainian's citizenship the entire problem of Ukraine and Russia will vanish! Wow! All fixed. Why should they give citizenship to people who have their own identity.
As for dhimmi status- that's non-Muslim status. Christians, Jews, Hindus and others had it throughout the Muslim world. It was a tax charged to non Muslims as they didn't have to fight in wars if the region was attacked.

Not really. Mandela was convicted of terrorist offences, set up a terrorist organisation, was Commander In Chief of that terrorist organisation, supported other terrorist groups such as the Provisional I.R.A, etc.

Terrorists don't have to do exactly the same crimes and atrocities as each other in order to be Terrorists. They certainly try to blackmail/coerce governments & populations to do what they want in addition to various crimes including but not limited to murdering civilians in various ways.

I don't think anything will repair the damage done, but I agree that Israel needs to leave the Palestinian territories alone, make reparations and actively repair the damage they have done to Palestinian infrastructure, however I doubt it'll happen, unless forced by international courts. Hopefully it can happen, and soon.

What an absolutely delusional post that is!🤦‍♂️

For the record, both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland's people very clearly and totally rejected the terrorism of the Provisional Sinn Féin/Provisional IRA/Provisional Army Council!

The Republic of Ireland was also much more repressive of the IRA than the UK ever was of PIRA.

Reparations shouldn't happen unless the displaced Jews in the region also get reparations. Unless you mean within the actual Palestinian territories as per 1967 borders, in which case there's much more of a case for it.

People often forget that a lot of the land was bought by Jews for them to move to. It was sold to them by the previous landowners who were not the ones who lived there. Paying reparations because you kicked a tenant off land you now own is just not likely to happen. Because why should it? Why should someone have to pay for the land twice?

Israel should leave a future state of Palestine in peace and Palestine should leave Israel in peace by not encouraging suicide bombings, offering pay per slay etc. I'm all for a two state solution and hope it happens in my lifetime.

You claim to be "educated enough" yet claim Palestinians have been held "in an open air prison / concentration camp for over 75 years"!

You've blatantly skipped the historical fact that Gaza was under Egyptian military rule from 1949 to 1956 and again from 1957 to 1967 and West Bank was part of Jordan from 1950 until 1967.

Also skipped who started the Six Day War and others. Hint: it wasn't Israel.

And "Free Palestine" was originally a Jewish slogan they used in the United States.

@TrickyRibbon a two state solution seems like the only way to move toward peace. But the Palestinian people need their own autonomy, democracy, without any interference from the Israeli state whatsoever. The Israeli state, the IDF need to make reparations for the land they have stolen and the unquantifiable and generational damage they have done to these people, and forever leave them in peace.

You think there were no Jews living there for thousands of years?? 🤦‍♀️

Do yourself a favour and look up the status of Jews under the Ottoman Empire in the region and what it meant to be a dhimmi.

Israel didn't create "a multi million person refugee issue". 700 000 Palestinians were displaced for various reasons related to the creation of the state of Israel and then as a result of UN (in)action and other countries refusing to give them citizenship, it has become "a multi million person refugee issue". Imagine if they hadn't been treated like vermin by the rest of the Arab world? Imagine if they'd instead been treated like humans in need of support? Imagine if the UN had actually pushed for their human rights to be respected instead of encouraging everyone including themselves to keep them as refugees?

Not every bad thing Palestinians have been through is because of Israel. Plenty of other countries have well and truly fucked them over too. Maybe look into how Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank were treated prior to 1967 by Egypt and Jordan.

Don't be facile. Both Hamas and Nelson Mandela have been given the title terrorist. It's entirely appropriate to ask what makes a terrorist and compare them. Anyway Israel would know about Manedela's terrorism given how closely it was involved in upholding, supporting and bolstering white minority rule in SA.

I was comparing them. I don't remember Nelson Mandela raping anyone or dragging their lifeless body through the streets in front of a jeering mob, as a blow for freedom of all South Africans.

Thanks, it's all water off a duck's back tbh. I teach teens, I know exactly how difficult it is to get them to connect the dots between pieces of information they have been given, or even getting them to remember pieces of information they have been given. When it's something abstract, like something happening in a far off country and without any sort of context to place it in, it's even more difficult.

And from teaching teens, I know how little some of them know about current affairs!

I did give him a book about antisemitism to read, it's absolutely clear from this thread and others how urgent it is teaching him how to spot it and avoid falling for it.

What should happen to it then?

Quick reminder here that not only WILL Mumsnet take action over posts expressing or could be interpreted as support for terrorist groups, but the relevant authorities might also be interested in such posts.

It is strictly prohibited.

I'm slightly older than this age bracket and I don't believe Israel should exist. I'm educated enough to know the history of how Israel came to be, and also educated enough to know that it will most likely continue to exist, but I don't believe it should, in my heart.
They are an occupying power who have held the Palestinians, particularly the Gazans, in an open air prison / concentration camp for over 75 years and subjected them to unimaginable cruelty, racism and segregation.
The state of Israel is a terrorist, genocidal state. They are abhorrent and so are those who support them and turn a blind eye to what they have been doing to the Palestinian people for decades.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸