To think that this really can't be true about young people's thoughts about Israel?

HRTQueen · Today 20:31
I think people are more informed about the conflict than they ever were
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They are also able to view footage of what is actually happening not something that has gone through media/government agency’s”

This.

Under Netanyahu and his right wing nutters, Israel is an oppressive, colonial power.

Idk how many students access this on SM but it will inform views

Of the discussions I’ve had or seen with young people, I don’t believe most think Isreal shouldn’t exist. I think the Israeli government, however, has done a fine job of ensuring anti-Isreal sentiment is increases as this ‘war’ continues. To what end, I don’t know.

I also think the youngsters are also far more aware of the history than the average adult, as they’ve been privy to more material and conversations from both sides of the fence that at any other time. They are also capable of looking at this in a more detached (possibly objective) way than us older folks.

Yes I do. I don’t think young people see why it seems so important for religions to have their own state. As pp said, young people are often quite simplistic in their thinking and most of them would prefer modern civilised states to be secular where people of all faiths should be safe. All this destruction and suffering just so that there’s a country with a Jewish government understandably doesn’t look like it makes sense.

Did you also explain to your son why Isreal are constantly under attack?

The student on the radio suggested that Jews could just live peacefully in Palestine (from the river to the sea) and this would be fine because they could simply tackle antisemitism when it arose.

I don't think they've read any history.

Since Israel was founded, every surrounding Middle Eastern country has essentially exported (or more accurately, driven out) their Jews to Israel. 850,000 Jews across MENA are estimated to have fled to Israel to take advantage of their safe haven policies. There used to be 50,000 Jews in Yemen, there is now 1 man.

If Israel is in some way peacefully disbanded (highly unlikely), where do these people go? They have no links to Europe and I highly doubt they'd be willing to return to countries they left a generation back. Any question on the supposed morality of the existence of Israel seems to completely sidestep the fact that the country already exists and the only way to undo this is to wipe out the country. It is not a neutral proposition.

Yet when they view videos of Hamas raping and murdering Jews they claim it's IDF propaganda, funny that!

The history is complex and I don’t think young people do complexity tbh, I certainly didn’t as a young person. I was surprised by the number of people not sure which river and which sea or were seemingly oblivious about 7th October. If you want me to chant something, I’d make damn sure I know what I’m saying and what exactly I was supporting by doing so, but then I’m old and grown out of my communist phase.

They can see the way Isreal is behaving now and how they seem determined to destroy Palestinian existence, so why should they think this is a country deserving of so much protection and support from the west?

Do you understand the difference between 'we shouldn't send arms to Israel' (or whatever) and 'Israel shouldn't exist as a country'?

i can completely believe young people feeling like this. They have been able to take an objective view of how Isreal was created and why, and what the consequences of that have been. They can see the way Isreal is behaving now and how they seem determined to destroy Palestinian existence, so why should they think this is a country deserving of so much protection and support from the west? It doesn’t make sense, and no matter how many excuses are made there is no justification for the illegal expansion of Israel and the occupation of Palestine, nor for the bombardment of Gaza.

It’s not difficult for most people to see right from wrong when they are presented with two sides to an issue.

Many won't even know why Israel was established in the first place, or those that do the events of WW2 are too distant for them to weight appropriately. Their perspective makes their view irrelevant at that age.

I'm not a young person but I do absolutely remember the apartheid in South Africa (and I went on many a protest March). I am also married to a South African who grew up there in the apartheid era, he does indeed make the comparison.

This is the problem with teaching the history of the region only from 1940s onwards and leaving out all the history and events in the region leading up to that.

I asked my teen DS about what he knew of the conflict from his social media and he knew about 'genocide' and 'Zionists are evil' but had no idea that the invasion of Gaza was prompted by a mass slaughter by Hamas and that Israel is constantly under attack.

He thought it was a 'Russia invades Ukraine unprovoked' situation.

Student politics....they just pick the view they think is the most trendy.

It's embarrassing really

they are young people and see things simplistically
in my view the actual founding of Israel was problematic to put it mildly, people were made homeless, stateless. But it exists now and we can't go back in time, Israelis have the right to peace and security like everyone.

Don't get me started on 'apartheid' -again, young people have no memory of the struggle against apartheid, there is no comparison.

I'm Jewish can believe it. I think it often comes kind of from a place of misunderstanding and general dislike of religion rather than antisemitism. I think many have a simplistic idea that this is dumb, credulous religious people fighting about who has the better stupid 'God', whereas it, although it's origins may essentially be religious, it's not being fought for 'God' or religion at all and most Israelis are totally irreligious. And indeed Israel is not even officially a 'religious' state.

To them it is just 'another country', other than the fact it is supposed to be an ally of our country.

I think the point of whether Israel should exist is moot - it does exist, I think it had to happen after WWII when a generation of Jews was left unable or understandably unwilling to return home to neighbours who waved them off to their deaths. And I think it has to continue existing even if for no other reason than there would be no safe or sane way to disestablish it without endangering the lives of every Jewish citizen. Also it would be an act of vandalism as it is, in many ways an incredible country that is so dynamic and creative - and I'd love Palestine to be given the chance to shine in that way too with some sort of 2-state solution.

I am ambivalent about Israel in many ways, but I strongly disagree with the narrative that many kids will be taking in that Israelis are 'just white Europeans colonialising brown people', it's much more complex than that and it's an argument designed to assuage liberal white guilt about the idea of disestablishing a Jewish state.

I think people are more informed about the conflict than they ever were

They are also able to view footage of what is actually happening not something that has gone through media/government agency’s

I don’t think this is surprising. I’m surprised that anyone would think it is surprising. The devastation and trauma is huge. The anger at politicians and the fear that all human rights safety netting (UN) has been disregarded is huge. Israel isn’t looking good. America isn’t looking good. The answer isn’t the erasure of Israel, but anger will mean people sympathise with that view. There needs to be a permanent ceasefire and two state solution.

Actually a lot of young people know far more about it than many people of my age (late 40s) because they study it for GCSE

Come on though, how many people actually know about the history of Israel and the history of the longstanding conflict? People love to get involved in the latest drama without actually knowing anything about it.

All I know, is if Glastonbury got invaded and thousands of innocent British young people were slaughtered on site or kidnapped, the attackers would have hell to pay. If the attackers hid in amongst locals, I have no doubt the UK, America etc would also attack.

Israel has always been damned either way. I hear literally no one talk about the atrocities of the October attack, people couldn't care less. Israel are expected to take the hit, to lie down and accept these horrific attacks. Who would accept that?! Would these young people you quote be ok if it happened to their sister, mother or friend?

Hypocrisy. Wait until the terrorism comes back to the UK, I'm sure the young adults will soon change their tune.

We are losing connection to the reason for Israel for young people

Idk if it’s a correct survey but it’s worrying

Well said.

I am not shocked by that

the anti Israel feeling has hugely stepped up. Many people view Israel as the aggressors as they look beyond October 7th so question why they should be supported by the west

I think our politicians are mainly out of touch with how people now view Israel and issues in the Middle East. Arabs are no longer viewed with the contempt as they were 20 years ago by many

Unherd spreads a lot of misinformation. It's owned by the same guy who owns GB news and he is not that fussed about accuracy if he can get clicks.
I'd take it with a huge pinch of salt. Its just trying to stir up division.