To think that this really can't be true about young people's thoughts about Israel?

Where are the defenders of Israel when this sort of spurious, racist nonsense is posted? Oh that's right, they let it slide.

Wonder why?

One would imagine they are sitting with their heads in their hands sickened by the anti-semitic postings and justifications of Hamas's action wondering "WTF, is happening to the world?" yet again.

A bit like my neighbour said he did in the 1930s. Because yes, apparently that's how you make modern day Jews feel.
And reading the thoughts of people on this thread, I can completely understand why.

You should be disgraced by yourselves.

@Aladdinzane you have tagged me in error as I have not said any of these things. I’ve asked you already to correct it, hoping you do so as I’m the one who has been misrepresented.

That sounds like an echo chamber.

Which is especially misleading for people that aren’t particularly “political” or well-informed…

Not sure why you've addressed that post to me because it seems to be totally irrelevant to anything I've said.

@noblegiraffe

I agree, we should not accept anyone being raped and murdered.

However, there appears to be no acknowledgment anywhere that sexual violence has been used against Palestinian women held in captivity illegally either, for years.

When you say Oct 7th has been forgotten, I disagree, the whole conflict is still being justified by October 7th and many still do so.

October 7th was not the start, Israel has been an international law breaking, human rights abusing, illegally occupying, oppressor of people of a certain ethnic grouping for decades which since the 40s has taken part in ethnic cleansing. This also appears to be forgotten.

There is no right side, however, people here that defend Israel continually paint Israel as the party that was the victim of aggression out of nowhere.

I’ll second this repulsion at the apparent acceptance of the young Israeli women raped and then murdered.

But also add that it’s no surprise that young (and not so young) people have now come to believe that Israel and only Israel is to blame for the conflict.

There’s no history, no explanation of why Jewish people in Israel feel, are and have been threatened, no reporting of Hamas’s commitment to killing Jewish people, or its continuing offences, and Oct 7th is all but forgotten. All has been wiped away by Netanyahu and IDFs transgressions. And, if my understanding only came from the news, well then I’d very likely hold that view too.

Sadly and tragically too many in the Israeli govt and too many Israeli ultranationalists don’t want peace and Hamas does not want peace and what happens as always is that it is women and children who suffer with their lives.

@DownNative

I've had one post deleted, and we actually had a fairly reasonable debate on why that particular part of the IHRA is problematic for some, even those of us who are not anti-Semitic.

The question I have is why is it specific to the Israeli government, when all the other parts of the definition are specifically dealing with racism, prejudice and historical tropes which are used to attack Jews. There is even one, which rightly states that its anti-Semitic to hold Jews responsible for the actions of the Israeli government, which makes that other one difficult to justify.

@PrincessTeaSet

There was no independent Jewish state in the area since before the common period, there were tribal Kingdoms, briefly, but they were ruled by Babylonians, Greeks, Egyptians and Romans.

In fact there was no "state" the archaeological evidence is of tribal kingdoms.

The Palestinians are descended from the people that occupied the area, as are the Jewish Israelis.

Couldn't give a damn. A "survey" conducted on such a small sample, and with a question phrased with no nuance, tells us nothing.

There was no Israel between old testament times and 1947.
Palestine was the name of the region but it was never independent, it was ruled by various empires including the Romans, Egyptians, ottomans

Yes, I think that's a good idea as it can seriously derail the thread. Unfortunately, too many people bring that up thinking it's somehow relevant OR equivalent to the Middle East conflict.

On this occasion, I won't go into detail about NI as crispy has just shown they don't actually know what theyre talking about. 🤔

If you cannot get the basics of the Troubles aka Operation Banner right, then why is it you think you can also talk about a far, far more complex and dangerous conflict in the Middle East Region?

It honestly baffles me.

My advice to you would be to sit this one out and listen to those who are well informed on terrorism, security and counter-terrorism.

Maybe stop talking about NI @crispychickenwings.
Please!

Er what? There was a place called Palestine back in biblical times up until the 1940s.

@DownNative I apologise for explaining to you. I didn’t mean to talk down on you. I suppose the IRA were endorsed by Protestant Irish people then? Did the Catholic people support the British or were they non-committal and wanted an end to the conflict? Once again, I apologise.

There's so much wrong with this post, so I'll have to address certain things at some point today. Currently working.

Take a look at my username and then think about where that is. I've always been open on here that I'm a Catholic from Northern Ireland and so I know exactly what the Provos did to my people, Catholic and Protestant alike.

You, on the other hand, sound like you're not even from Northern Ireland.

I assure you PIRA never, ever had majority support from Catholics in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland! Indeed, they were illegal on both sides of the border and utterly rejected.

Don't try to tell me what you THINK the Provos were about. I'll tell you what they were about complete with various bits of supporting evidence.

My family and I have had to deal with the Provos in real life. Sit down!

You might learn something.

It's a common tactic done not only on here but online to try and erase Palestinian history in an attempt to legitimise the current ethnic cleansing that Israel is carrying out.

One can only hope some reflecting gets done around own prejudices and blind spots and the reasonableness of complaining about other people doing what we’re doing ourself.

What on earth? Is this comment designed to be provocative? Why are you erasing Palestinians and their history entirely?

@DownNative I am not saying that Hamas are not terrorists. I am saying that Western nations and their allies are as much terrorists as Hamas are, and just because they have not had it officially declared by (their own!!) institutions does not mean they are not. E.g Israel, US and the UK. Through them continually using the ‘Hamas are terrorists’ line they divert the blame from themselves for what they are doing and have done that can be classed as terrorism. If we only view Hamas as terrorists, our view of the conflict will become clouded. The fact that the US has an Act to invade The Hague if they ever take them to court says all you need to know…

Your view of the Provisional IRA proves you have no idea what was happening in Ireland at the time. They felt ‘terrorised’ by UK forces in their homeland, and responded with the IRA. Their militia seemed to be the only glimmer of hope for some people. Peaceful talks weren’t working. To this day, many Irish people have a negative view of Britain.

You're talking to someone who's had several comments deleted for being Antisemitic in nature.

Mumsnet certainly thought so.

Do you hop on and correct people when they make spurious racist comments about Jews or Israelis? Or do you let it slide?

There aren’t many posters who take a fair and balanced view, but there are some.

You can see this type of use of social media on here and on other platforms, there's a pro-Russian comment/anti-Ukranian on another thread that looks like it may be part of this type of propaganda. It's used to plant doubt and spread dis-information and it's been used previously with regard to Brexit to try and influence the outcome. Social media is powerful as propaganda.

Aside from this, nuance often seems to be lost now, there are atrocities on both sides. No one should forget the horrors of 7th October when discussing this subject, and we shouldn't forget Gaza today either.