Choose a side: Vinted v disabled users

Years ago, there was a proposal for UK ID cards that would provide a gold standard for identity verification & citizen entitlements (NHS treatment, voting, etc) without requiring people to be travellers or drivers. It was lobbied against due to fears the government would have too much information about people before it really started.

This situation is one of the unexpected consequences of relying on "proxy services" to supply U.K. ID.

You are not overjoyed that your son will have to deal with people who understand the disability discrimination act? As opposed to having a Mum who clearly doesn't understand?
It's been explained many times on this thread, the law is quite clear in what constitutes discrimination, it's not a "personal opinion"

Asking for photo ID is not the issue. It's the discriminatory access to photo ID that is the problem.

It’s the due diligence obligations that are presenting the problem, so I would think any action in respect of discrimination would be taken up with the regulatory body responsible. It’s an example of the kind of indirect discrimination disabled people face in many areas.

The point is that it’s the policy itself which could be viewed as discriminatory because it puts many disabled people at a disadvantage because of their disability. Under the Equality Act 2010 this is unlawful. Vinted ask for one of two forms of ID - driving licence and passport. Driving licence is cheaper but because many disabled people are prohibited from driving because of their disability, and also because it may be more difficult for a disabled person to be issued with a provisional licence (medical evidence or examination is often required), they are effectively only left with one choice - the more expensive passport option. This means they are being treated differently than non disabled people because of their disability, so on the surface of it, this is what seems to be indirect discrimination.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Vinted is responsible to check the id of people retrieving large amounts of money?
What are you suggesting they do? Accept a document that is not an official photo id? That would put them in breach of their due diligence obligations so surly not. What then?

I read the thread, no need to assume that me disagreeing means I haven’t.
I also have a disabled son. I’m not overjoyed by the prospect that he will have to deal with people like you either.

Back to the topic. I believe that vinted is right to ask for an official photo id before allowing people to take out money. Have you received anti money laundering trainings? I did and the bottom line is that Vinted is responsible to check the identity.
Now as to why people in the UK are fighting against ID cards that would be cheaper than passports, who knows. But that is not Vinted’s fault, isn’t it?

You are shouting into the wind on this thread. It's unbelievable.

There is direct and indirect discrimination - something doesn’t need to be intentionally exclusive of disabled people to be unlawful. Under the Equality Act 2010 it is unlawful to put disabled people at a disadvantage because of their disability. This is what this policy does, so it could be viewed as disability discrimination. A disabled person may be medically unfit to drive because of their disability, in which case they would not be able to obtain the cheaper provisional licence, and the only option would be the more expensive passport. It may not be directly the fault of Vinted or Mangopay, but on the face of it, the limited prescribed forms of ID may be discriminatory under the Act.

Mangopay (who run the e-wallet Vinted uses, which is not technically a bank) operate in 170 countries, they are not going to be interested in making an exception for the UK, if they meet the FCA regulations already, which they appear to do.

It is ridiculous that we have this confusion over ID in the UK, in most other countries having national ID is compulsory, nothing can be done without it (so irrespective of need to travel), but it also costs money, an admin fee at least. In my husband's EU country you are fined if you don't have it when requested for it by authorities or apply with it after 16. There's no option called have no ID, this is something UK people seem to struggle with and I'm not sure why.

If you think of the passport as a national ID document, then getting one, paying the fee and using it throughout your life to access all kinds of things will be so much easier.

If you rely on using your birth certificate, combination of letters, and so on, it's always going to be more painful for you to access things.

I don't think this would meet the definition of discriminatory because being poor isn't a basis for discrimination, although you could try arguing that inability to drive (disability) leaves you open only to the one type of ID.

Ultimately you have to say- how much time and energy do I want to spend fighting with Vinted/Mangopay and how much do I just want to get the money out of the system, and then do that as suggested by lots of people on the thread. In future, take the money out in small bursts, it is only because it's been left that it's triggered another layer of security, usually no ID is required to take out Vinted money into your bank account.

Is there a fee in those countries with national ID cards or is it free (paid by taxes) because it's mandatory? I can imagine would cost a government a fair bit to implement & run

In the 2 euro country I am a citizen of, yes there is a fee for the id card. A bit cheaper than passport though.
And you have to renew it every 10y or so, same as the passport. To note that the id card is not mandatory, what is mandatory is to have either passport or id card.

Ffs read the thread. It has been explained over and over why this is discrimination. It's shocking how many people just don't have a basic grasp of this. As the parent of a disabled child, it is also hugely depressing that you are the people he will have to deal with.
Mumsnet is so frustrating in that half the posters just read the OP and then bang on spreading misinformation that has been corrected many times over the thread. You aren't posting to learn, you are just interested in hearing your own voice.

I don't think it's unreasonable that Vinted need photo ID as will be down to financial regulations. However it really it should be part of the account set up before you can list to sell, so you're definitely aware you won't get payment without it. It's easy to say well should've read the T's & C's but that can also be difficult for some due to learning difficulties or disability.

Some people have suggested possible work arounds so I hope your friend is able to access the money a different way.

I do agree it is discriminatory that the government doesn't recognise that your options for photo ID in UK are limited with some disabilities to the much more expensive passport (£88.50-100) where the able bodied can apply for the more affordable provisional driving licence (£34). It's not like either are one off costs as need renewing (£88.50+ V £14).

Is there a fee in those countries with national ID cards or is it free (paid by taxes) because it's mandatory? I can imagine would cost a government a fair bit to implement & run.

Yes, she did.

It's in their T&Cs. To 'sign up' you have to accept the T&Cs.

As others have said, it's got nothing to do with her disability. I agree that making a passport or driving licence the only acceptable forms of ID (for anything) is crap because lots of people don't have them and there's a cost associated with them but that has absolutely nothing to do with whether someone's disabled or not.

Because this way she still ends up with an extra £200, and a useful document. If she wants to take the bank to court, good luck to her, but most of us wouldn't have the knowledge or time for that

You got the bit where the OP said that the neighbour, the disabled neighbour who can't travel, doesn't have the types of identification, the only types of id that Vinted will accept, right?

I personally think that framing it as discrimination and a title such as « vinted vs disabled users » is disrespecting people actually facing discrimination

This!

It's not discrimination in the least, the rules are the same for everyone and framing it as a company oppressing a minority is wrong and misleading, in this instance, the person using Vinted doesn't have a passport, their disability status/their income is irrelevant and Vinted has not changed the rules solely to exclude them, which if they had WOULD be discrimination.

I’ve never been asked for ID but I always withdraw small amounts. It’s their T&Cs which the seller would have agreed to when they signed up.

Because she is disabled doesn’t make it discrimination. Lots of disabled people have passports / lots of abled bodied people don’t.

Requiring an official photo id to be able to conduct financial transaction is not unreasonable. If you want to fight, fight against the UK gov for not offering id cards.

I personally think that framing it as discrimination and a title such as « vinted vs disabled users » is disrespecting people actually facing discrimination.

I’ve got health problems, and will never travel abroad. But, I keep my passport renewed. ID is needed for all sorts of things, and I don’t drive.

It’s a nuisance, but necessary.🤷‍♀️

Me too! Especially for a site that’s so hot on disability rights !
It’s blatantly discriminatory!! I’m also not sure why people think it’s reasonable she should be out of pocket and pay to get a passport purely to be able to withdraw her own money.

But the fact that she HAS to pay for a passport when she can’t travel, puts her at a disadvantage to non disabled people.
That’s discriminatory

Yes, I’ve heard about it. It seems a bit odd to me, I’ve previously lived in Europe and having a national ID card wasn’t seen as an issue at all.
So I personally wouldn’t blame the government for that (even though passports could probably be cheaper), but I wouldn’t blame Vinted (or Mangopay) either.
They are companies based in a different country, it makes sense that to comply with money laundering regulations they might require a more forgery proof and internationally recognised ID than a local UK bank.

I lived in Scandinavia and it was very similar to what you describe. Only the price was lower, if I remember correctly, but you needed the national ID card for pretty much everything, including receiving a parcel sent to you.
A PP mentioned the reluctance of many Brits to accept a national ID card system, which has been proposed under different governments.
But then, that’s not Vinted’s fault really. I can’t imagine a company based in a different country having to figure out if copies of local bank statements/ utility bills are sufficiently reliable documents to prove someone’s identity.

Anyone with enough spending money hanging around.

OP what about using the small claims court?