To ask what about victims of male on male violence

I have helped run a women's centre for almost 40 years. In that time we have discussed male needs, a male service, but have never had any local interest from LA or mens groups

About 7 or 8 years ago mainstream funding criteria changed and, despite our charitable status being single sex and female, we had an added imperative, we MUST support male victims in some meaningful manner. Not just us, this seems to be sector wise.

So we had to set up a male centre. Set it up, staff it, network it, get it funded and look for a male committee to run it - we don't think men should be forced to a mixed sex environment either, though we do have ongoing services that are mixed sex, as well as single sex groups, all are well used.

Anyway... It took us years to staff it and even longer to find men to run it. Even now, about 8 or 9 years on we still do the boring admin (like funding) because no man has stepped up.

Is the male service well used ? Not for DV, no. So, in order for it to survive and for us not to potentially lose funding for our far too busy female centre, it is now loosely incorporated with other male services, networked with the Men's Shed etc. It's a very, very different service and is wholly designed, protected, supported by women - not always with good grace as it is not a voluntary arrangement.

So you may not get the response you expect from women on a mainly female forum.

Well, my lived experience is that my current friends group is about 60-40 women to men. Four of the guys have had hospital stays through being attacked, three on nights out and one walking home from work in the dark. Only one of the women I know has, through domestic violence. My brother was sucker-punched from behind and then kerb-stomped, coming out of a kebab house on a night out.

I've only been attacked once, and it was by a group of women many years ago. They were never prosecuted, because "...it would be hard to prove who started it".

Ok so if a drunk girl wanders off and gets raped - whose fault is it?

The drunk girl
Her mates who apparently have duty of care
The rapist?

The drunk girls mates walk her home not because she might get hypothermia it’s because she might get raped. - by a man.

Lads walk their mate home so he doesn’t end up killing himself.

Do you see the difference?

Male on male violence is waaaaaaaaaaaay at the back of the list I need to worry about

It’s a bit like worrying about the lions killing a each other before they come to eat the people in the village

I mean sure - tell your son not to let ‘Dave’ wander off but to come on a predominantly female board which is full of posts about abusive men and VAWG and then blame male on male violence on everything else - except men is pretty telling tbh

Male violence isn’t caused by austerity. Wealthy men bear their wives too.

Male violence is down to male aggression which is caused by testosterone spikes when challenged.

Women do not have these testosterone spikes.

So it really IS a male problem.

Exactly, they don’t at all. That’s why, for example, it’s nearly always men writing daft comments under posts about walking pads “ hey why don’t you all just walk outside” it’s like they haven’t considered that aside from many other reasons (weather, convenience etc) there are safety concerns for not wanting to go on a run outside even during the days. And men aren’t warned not to go back to a woman’s house after a first date or not to share to where they live etc with Anna love interest. They may choose not to, but it’s not something they’re typically told not to do for safety reasons the same way women are.

@ntmdino "I've already explained this, see my post near the top of the previous page. Most men automatically do all of the things that women are asked to do to protect themselves; it's learned in the playground."

I hesitate to question your lived experience- but I really don't think this is true. I know no men who carry their keys in their hands when walking home at night. Who choose shoes specifically so they can run. Who make sure they are not sitting alone in a section of public transport. Who avoid being alone in a taxi. Who check up on their friends after a night out to make sure they are all home safely. The list is endless. And none of the men I know do these things routinely.

boys/teens who are at risk of going down the wrong path
I think this is a significant factor in the problem of men. I.e they go down the wrong path much more readily and easily than women do. They also become 'too far gone' much more easily than women do, ie out of control and everyone is unwilling/ unable to stand up to them

I've already explained this, see my post near the top of the previous page. Most men automatically do all of the things that women are asked to do to protect themselves; it's learned in the playground. They don't talk about it, because it's just part of their life.

Is that a good thing? No, absolutely not - that's the "affects negatively" part. Nobody should need to do those things in an ideal society. They do, however, just accept that it's necessary.

Men want to dominate and control, to dominate and control other men as well as all women.

Apologies for not caring more but I'm still recovering from my vicious assault at the hands of a man (that took me 6 months to heal from the injuries... the first anniversary is this week.) I'm not trying to gain sympathy, but just say that all the shit that men put women through makes it even harder for us to solve problems that are mostly not ours to fix.

They assault us and murder us, but we're still meant to solve the problem of male on male violence, on top of living with the consequences of their violence towards us.

Won't someone think of the poor men who can't stop assaulting and murdering people?!

Maybe mothers can have an impact, however, I feel the male role model is often more significant than the mother's role, for their sons. A good man treating his wife well teaches young men to do the same.

Maybe the best thing a woman can do is to marry a good man so that her son has a good role model.

As the mother of a son I disagree that its an issue for men to sort out. We need to teach ours sons good communication, how to manage stress and emotional upheaval and how to reach out when they are not coping.
violence is often due to a suppression or inability to handle internal struggles, or though being taught that domination of others is the only way to win in life.
The world is a difficult place for most of us. Men make up half the population, its a ‘humankind’ issue.

Men want to monopolise female centric conversations to shut women down. They don’t actually care about male centric issues or male victims. If they did they would be having those conversations and taking action amongst themselves. But they don’t. Instead they bitch and moan about women having conversations and setting up initiatives to help and support other women with all their ‘but what about us’ shite. For example, the only time men recognise or care about International Men’s Day is on International Women’s Day. The only time they care about victims of male on male or female on male violence is during conversations women are having about male violence against women and girls. The reason there are more initiatives and support options for women than men is because women get off their arse and create them.

They should at least care enough to be out there leading the demands for change. We can get behind them. Be allies. Not be the ones doing it all for them.

Where are they? Why aren't they out there leading the cause?

Can’t disagree with any of that
thats the “what”. The “how” is harder

more specifically, the how to make it more broadly the case rather than some men doing it, and the problem men not doing (and never being challenged)

But saying it’s just “mens” fault and their job to fix job is like saying that, for example, black on black knife crime is the fault of all black people and they should sort it out.

it’s not right to simply say “men do it, men sort it”. It’s reductive and unhelpful.

I suspect though many women like this set up, are quite happy not working, and don’t want to be working full time with a sahd
Typically when women are the higher earner the male partner sulks because he isn't the boss anymore, does everything he can to Sabotage her, insists that he still head of the household, refuses to do the domestic work etc.
Women who take on the role of full-time parent ARE working. Parenting caring for children IS work. It has low status because it's not paid and that's why men don't want to do it. They want to focus on what's best for them and they expect the woman to Sacrifice herself for other people.

À lot. I'm on my phone so CBA writing it all out. But I'll come back to this poibt