Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think NHS guidelines are made on pure whim?

38 replies

pinkzebra02 · 04/06/2024 20:42

I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry. I've been let down by the health service multiple times but the latest letdown really goes beyond a joke.

I've been complaining of fatigue and low mood for months and had blood tests, nothing was flagged so I assumed it must be something else. I access my health record and it shows my serum ferritin (iron stores) are at a grand total of 12. NICE guidelines say that anything below 30 is a deficiency, but because the NHS for some reason ignores this and sets their lower range for 10?

Not only have I not been told about this (had to download nhs app just to view my results) but since being tested over a month ago I've developed blurred vision and frequent headaches, on top of the worsening fatigue. So essentially my organs have been starved of oxygen whilst healthcare staff happily pick up their pay packets for inadequate work. Yay.

AIBU to imagine that NHS guidelines are based purely on the mood of whoever is at a keyboard somewhere, rather than actual scientific evidence/ advice? And why exactly are our taxes being spend on funding this horrendously awful service? A literal farce.

To think NHS guidelines are made on pure whim?
To think NHS guidelines are made on pure whim?
OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Suncream123 · 05/06/2024 15:14

Pantaloons99 · 05/06/2024 13:29

Whilst we are all here. I paid for a private iron infusion which triggered an horrific reaction called hypophosphatemia. It was the brand FERRINJECT that is most likely to cause this. Biggest error as I've never recovered. Was hospitalised for weeks.

Anyone looking at iron infusion privately just make sure it isn't this brand. The reaction doesn't happen to everyone btw but this brand has lawsuits against it right now in the US.

Iron infusions should only be used in very limited situations and should not be available on request privately. I would suggest referring the company who did it to the CQC and the dr to the GMC.

Pantaloons99 · 05/06/2024 13:31

YellowCloud · 04/06/2024 23:00

Blurred vision when you stand up sounds like low blood pressure.

I have POTS which does this. Massive blood pressure drops like you say. Hideous. Lots of deficiencies make it worse.

Pantaloons99 · 05/06/2024 13:29

Whilst we are all here. I paid for a private iron infusion which triggered an horrific reaction called hypophosphatemia. It was the brand FERRINJECT that is most likely to cause this. Biggest error as I've never recovered. Was hospitalised for weeks.

Anyone looking at iron infusion privately just make sure it isn't this brand. The reaction doesn't happen to everyone btw but this brand has lawsuits against it right now in the US.

TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology · 05/06/2024 09:36

I appreciate your frustration but you’ve misunderstood. It is not guidelines, it’s the lab values that your blood sample went to.
I would suggest you follow up with another GP for a second opinion.

Moonshine5 · 04/06/2024 23:06

Dance around you? You sound racist op

Moonshine5 · 04/06/2024 23:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Why do you think Ethiopia has witch doctors? @pinkzebra02

YellowCloud · 04/06/2024 23:00

Blurred vision when you stand up sounds like low blood pressure.

buffyslayer · 04/06/2024 22:58

Same with thyroid, my TSH wasn't over 10 but I felt awful
Immunology found my thyroid antibodies were high and suggested I needed a referral. My GP said no
Ended up on meds in the end but it took feeling shit for ages

YellowCloud · 04/06/2024 22:58

Have you visited an optician?

(not being sarky at all btw - opticians are highly qualified to assess vision problems. You might have more luck than through general practice)

YellowCloud · 04/06/2024 22:55

You sound aggrieved by your treatment by the NHS, which is fair.

As others have said, ferritin of 12 isn’t wildly low, it’s just a bit of anaemia. If you focus too much on the low-ish ferritin you’ll be at risk of not being taken seriously (especially if you talk about organs being starved of oxygen, etc.). They’ll see people with far lower ferritin levels, day in and day out. It can be easily treated by yourself with iron tablets, spinach, Spatone, Floradix, etc (have you tried this?). This should work, unless you have a genetic condition like thalassaemia which prevents you from storing iron.

Your blurred vision and headaches are likely caused by something else, and I would focus on that while seeking treatment. There’s no evidence iron deficiency causes blurred vision. But you could request an iron infusion if you really want to rule it out.

NHS guidelines are decided by experts, and as another poster has said, guided by randomised controlled trials. There is no conspiracy of people presenting healthcare information wrong on purpose. Just normal people, medical researchers and clinical staff, doing their best.

pinkzebra02 · 04/06/2024 22:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TeenLifeMum · 04/06/2024 22:33

CmonYouKnow · 04/06/2024 22:25

Have you tried Spatone?

Just googled and it looks like 5mg of iron. If the 210mg of iron tablets can’t lift my levels above 12, I don’t think 5mg will do much but am I missing something? Happy to be told I’m wrong.

iron Glycinate is better but still messes with my digestion. GP was unsympathetic when I said I was struggling with the tablets but the pharmacist suggested I try these ones.

innerdesign · 04/06/2024 22:31

You're being ridiculously dramatic. The lab reference ranges at your surgery (not the entire NHS) are lower, therefore the HCP who checked your results saw they're 'normal'/in range, and reported as such. It's not exactly an error, but it's also not particularly good clinical care, as it's so borderline. You probably should get oral iron (disclaimer - haven't seen the rest of your results). I'm sure if you book another appointment or call up to query it'll be resolved fairly easily. HCPs are human, and also are being asked to do more and more with less and less.

BSG guidelines state 'Serum ferritin (SF) is the most specific test for iron deficiency in the absence of inflammation. An SF level of <15 µg/L is indicative of absent iron stores, while SF levels of less than 30 µg/L are generally indicative of low body iron stores. The lower limit of normal for most laboratories, therefore, lies in the range 15–30 µg/L.
As SF is an acute phase protein, however, apparently normal levels may occur with iron deficiency in the context of an inflammatory disease process.26 An SF cut-off of 45 µg/L has been suggested as providing the optimal trade-off between sensitivity and specificity for iron deficiency in practice.'

You're confusing your lab reference ranges with NHS guidelines. The NHS uses various guidelines, some of which will be NICE.

CmonYouKnow · 04/06/2024 22:25

TeenLifeMum · 04/06/2024 22:16

When mine are 24 I feel amazing. Currently at 6 and iron tablets make me feel sick. Gp said that he’ll push for an iron infusion if they’re low after 3 more months… they’ve been low since 2020 so not sure why he thinks the next three months will be different. He blames my heavy periods…. I don’t have heavy periods but my make gp doesn’t believe that. Sigh.

Have you tried Spatone?

Swingingvvoter · 04/06/2024 22:19

@pinkzebra02 I completely agree someone need to hold them to account and about nice guidelines... Why are they so different...

TeenLifeMum · 04/06/2024 22:17

pinkzebra02 · 04/06/2024 22:03

I'd just like to know where the number 10 as an acceptable level has come from, if not plucked from thin air. Because I can't find any papers or other evidence anywhere that suggests it's a level consistent with health. Did someone choose the number 10 because it's an even or lucky number perhaps? I honestly wouldn't be surprised the way some trusts are run.

I just want to have my health coveted by a professional working with sound theory behind their practise, and no not come home from a day's work absolutely exhausted because I'm ill and have to do a doctor's work for them.

It’s be from a critical analysis of cost effectiveness and clinical effectiveness randomised controlled trials.

Swingingvvoter · 04/06/2024 22:17

Op I was going to come on to say about my low iron experience and my daughter.. I had hair falling out, blurred vision, I felt power to draining out of my veins.
I had anxiety, struggled to sleep and so on.

Low iron.

Mumsnet has told me ideal levels are around 70 and the NHS is known for this... Someone at NHS was angry with by dd results and told me to always get your results and look yourself... So I did for my dd and she was right on the iron border. The doctor said her results were perfect.

TeenLifeMum · 04/06/2024 22:16

When mine are 24 I feel amazing. Currently at 6 and iron tablets make me feel sick. Gp said that he’ll push for an iron infusion if they’re low after 3 more months… they’ve been low since 2020 so not sure why he thinks the next three months will be different. He blames my heavy periods…. I don’t have heavy periods but my make gp doesn’t believe that. Sigh.

WitchyWay · 04/06/2024 22:12

Doctors are highly trained and the majority want to do the best for patients. You must understand though that they are being asked to see a record number of patients on less and less funding (once inflationary costs are considered).

The NHS and primary care especially (preventative services) need more investment.

Of course numbers aren't plucked from thin air. Professionals who have spent decades training and continue to do so are responsible for setting tolerances. They have generally been doing the job for decades.

I find your attitude very dismissive and entitled. If you don't agree with their interpretation of your blood work, with your basic research from doctor Google, then ask to go back and speak to someone about it. Send an e-consult requesting clarity. Don't diss the whole organisation. Many people everyday get world class treatment from the NHS, I'm still very proud to have it. A system that isn't perfect by any means but, when your lucks out and your health is poor, it supports you. In many other countries you're on your own.

Unfortunately, people will only realise how lucky we are once it's gone. And once it's gone, it's gone for good ☹️

pinkzebra02 · 04/06/2024 22:03

I'd just like to know where the number 10 as an acceptable level has come from, if not plucked from thin air. Because I can't find any papers or other evidence anywhere that suggests it's a level consistent with health. Did someone choose the number 10 because it's an even or lucky number perhaps? I honestly wouldn't be surprised the way some trusts are run.

I just want to have my health coveted by a professional working with sound theory behind their practise, and no not come home from a day's work absolutely exhausted because I'm ill and have to do a doctor's work for them.

OP posts:
Pantaloons99 · 04/06/2024 21:58

socks1107 · 04/06/2024 21:25

ILikeItWhatIsIt

You won't mind when it is privatised then and you have to pay?

This argument is really annoying. We are allowed to support an NHS system or concept whilst still acknowledging the utter shit show we all have to deal with! I imagine most don't want privatisation. To be honest I've met just as many incompetent idiots privately. The point is we are paying for a service that's an utter disgrace and then end up paying again to actually access some help, support, guidance, treatment. I've lost thousands dealing with significant chronic illness because of the NHS.

Suncream123 · 04/06/2024 21:54

Your organs aren't being starved of oxygen because your ferritin is low end.of normal!

MonaMental · 04/06/2024 21:53

Liliee · 04/06/2024 21:43

Anyone else reading; this is not true. Low ferritin is associated with fatigue and many other symptoms.

Just one paper on the subject: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3414597/

Completely agree, there’s so much evidence to back up that low Ferritin needs to be treated! Some Doctors haven’t kept up with the pace of research.

Liliee · 04/06/2024 21:43

Serencwtch · 04/06/2024 21:35

Low ferritin isn't really a problem if your red blood cells & harmaglobin are normal.
Ferritin is just back up iron storage it doesn't have any other function & definitely doesn't transport oxygen. That's the haemoglobin in the red blood cells. Low ferritin definitely doesn't mean your body is starved of oxygen.

I have a medical condition which means I have frequent severe anemia needing blood transfusion. My ferritin nearly always reads <4 which essentially means zero. It doesn't have any affect on me.

The Hb is the test to look at to determine if you are anemic. It's possible to have low ferritin but not anemic which I'm guessing is what your doctor is saying.

There's many, many reasons for fatigue & it sounds like you have had extensive tests to rule out anything serious. Alot of the time no reason is found for fatigue. That's not because the doctor is rubbish it's just they don't have all the answers.

You are likely to benefit from improving your diet or taking a supplement.

Anyone else reading; this is not true. Low ferritin is associated with fatigue and many other symptoms.

Just one paper on the subject: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3414597/

To think NHS guidelines are made on pure whim?
MonaMental · 04/06/2024 21:42

I can understand your frustration! It looks like the reference range is incorrect, my blood test results from the NHS shows under 30 as being deficient. Make sure you are tested again 3 months after treatment to check you are absorbing it too. I suffered for a long time without being retested and found treatment wasn’t working. Could have found out years ago if they had followed the NICE guidelines and simply retested. There’s now much more research and evidence to show that low ferritin has a profound impact on health, not just iron levels which many professionals still focus on. I hope you get better treatment soon