To dislike it when men post on mumsnet?

Its not that you like intelligent, strong women. Its more that you only feel comfortable with a limited range of discussion.
Its not up to you to set the tone of the discussion. When women are processing trauma they don't speak perfectly. Its more important to let them speak and find their voice than it is to police the way they speak.

We lead by example; because the alternative is the same authoritarian bullshit they are dealing with within the broken relationship.

It's so embarrassing that you think this is a clever response. It's many things, but "the language of identity politics" and "divisive" it really isn't. Do you just chuck out stuff like that and imagine it's a catch-all to refute any argument you don't like? Like so many posters do with "you're projecting"?

And then think you're the authority on lazy language and debate stifling?

@5128gap ,

I don’t want to become a nuisance man dominating a thread on a mainly female forum, as I do get why people find that annoying, so this will be my last post for a while.

I was focusing on meaning rather than words.

To explain further, I don’t like ‘doubling down’ as it suggests that trying to justify or further elucidate one’s view is a bad thing. No one ever says ‘you doubled down brilliantly’, do they? It is a closing phrase; it kind of means ‘shut the fuck up if you know what’s good for you’.

And the bit I don’t like in ‘get it’ is the ‘it’, which is here vague and amorphous. I assume it to mean that men can’t understand why women feel the way they do. Again it is ‘lived experience’ vs empirical evidence. I think men and women can both have opinions on all of the human experience. In any event, I think if you say to someone that they don’t get it that you should explain clearly what the ‘it’ is.

And, as for the handmaiden term, I am often on the opposite side of the argument! I just think it is a horrid dismissive (and misogynistic) term. I do try to read and take in opinions, even if I strongly disagree, and do change my mind on issues (though it does take a while).

I actually like the fact that this is a female dominated forum with intelligent and strong women who support one another. A few men, however, adds rather than detracts from that (and yea, men and women can both be arseholes! The site has rules intended to exclude them, but it is the internet…).

'Get it' is not the language if identity politics. Its the language of experience.

Women who have lived experience of male pattern violence experience a discussion in a different way from men who are annoyed that men as a class are being spoken of in ways they don't like. Your theoretical opinion comes from a different place to theirs.

You know what also stifles debate? Picking out phrases people use to express themselves in an attempt to discredit them without the need to address their point.
My point remains the same whether I say 'double down' or 'stick with your original position in the light of an opposing argument', and as selecting one phrase or the other is entirely neutral in terms of the debate, perhaps we can focus on meaning rather than my choice of words?
As for language such as 'get it' its merely a way of saying 'understand'. In this case understand why some women don't want the type of male input I referenced. In my view those men are displaying a higher level of decency than those who don't understand. I was quite clear about that and didn't try to hide it behind my choice of language.
However, you might want to reflect on your own....Your choice of words to describe the 'independent and intelligent' women who agree with you, because that's not emotive, is it?
I actually don't want men to be banned from MN as it happens, even the nuisance ones, as I personally prefer challenging views I disagree with to trying to silence them. But I understand why many women feel differently.

@NonPlayerCharacter ,

You’re just doubling down on your last dogmatic post; you really don’t get how a discussion forum works….

As pompous a post as it is inaccurate and unintentionally amusing.

Slang evolves and it's not intellectually dishonest to use it to describe things like hardening a stance and failing comprehension. Attempting to deflect and invalidate common language, however...

@NonPlayerCharacter ,

All this ‘extremely common’ slang is extremely common since the internet became a thing and people lined up in echo chambers. It is lazy and divisive language, trying to stifle proper debate.

Go back a few years and you just won’t see it in common usage in a sensible debate forum.

👋👋👋manny man man here

@N225NNW ,

Plenty!

If you don’t believe that, why wouldn’t you welcome their contributions on a parenting site?

Obviously ‘the enemy’ is a vague phrase and there is a lot of nuance within it, but plenty of members of this site don’t like men much. They always except their husband, children and relatives, but it is like antisemites (I am Jewish) always having ‘Jewish best friends’.

I've seen a rare few...but tbh, they have usually been raped, assaulted and/or horribly abused by numerous men. Anyone who thinks the real problem is that they haven't shed their trauma for the benefit of male posters really has no place commenting on it at all.

(I think ‘double down’ is silly and emotive language, we aren’t playing poker).

It's extremely common slang, both here and abroad, for "hardening your stance when challenged on it".

Again ‘get it’ is the language of echo chambers; you either ‘get it’ (whatever ‘it’ means) and you are a good guy or you don’t, in which case your opinion is unwanted.

It's extremely common slang, both here and abroad, for "understand fully".

This is the language of identity politics, which is very destructive.

Oh for heaven's sake!

@5128gap ,

‘Problem is though, when a group of women are discussing men being 'bad' and society being sexist, you can guarantee there will be women amongst the number for whom that's not just a general discussion, and who have had a bad experience and are looking for support. Women's experiences of this are so common its incredibly difficult to have a conversation that doesn't touch on one's personal experiences, in a way that is typically not the case for the men just here for the debate.
Now you could of course just double down on that, and say, well, if those women are that sensitive they need to stay off the thread themselves as its not up to me as a man to self censor to make them comfortable. And you'd be within your rights. But I would argue that that wouldn't be the response of a decent man. It wouldn't be the response of the men I think are good, or the male posters on here who get it.’

Well I am afraid I would disagree with you (I think ‘double down’ is silly and emotive language, we aren’t playing poker). Again ‘get it’ is the language of echo chambers; you either ‘get it’ (whatever ‘it’ means) and you are a good guy or you don’t, in which case your opinion is unwanted. This is the language of identity politics, which is very destructive.

I totally disagree with this type of thought process. MN is an adult discussion forum and, if you choose to join a discussion (not a support thread, but a general discussion, as I specified previously), you need to be prepared to hear views which dissent from your own, from both women and men. You are not compelled to read any post or join any discussion.

There are some posters here who believe that men are the enemy and, worse, women who disagree with them are handmaidens, as opposed to independent intelligent women who disagree with them.

I've never seen a thread like that. I've seen the odd post from someone making deeply misogynist/MRA style comments (typically peppered with cry laughing emojis when there's nothing remotely funny) followed by "Are you a man?" "A man?!?? What makes you think I'm a man??? (Tell me how I gave myself away) I'm a happily married middle aged housewife and mother of ten from the home counties who just happens to use more emojis than words, and thinks comments about rape should have a lol after them"
Are those the ones you mean?

Those batshit threads where there's a witch hunt based on the suspicion that a poster may be a man are hilarious.

Jesus. Men have opinions too. Men are parents too.

Some of these posts!

I think men only clubs are fine tbh. We all need a rest from the opposite sex sometimes 😊

My brother's wife died, he bought up his DD, one day he went into Mothercare to use their nappy changing facilities, he was told to fuck off, was that you OP?

We all raised a glass when MC collapsed.

A Mothercare member of staff told him to fuck off? And did you ask think that that was Mothercare's policy?

I'm sorry that he was treated that way. It's inexcusable. But I'm not sure why you raised a glad to its collapse. I don't think any company would encourage (or countenance) their staff telling anyone to fuck off.

Yet women want to go into men only clubs, is that ok?

Our social club was set up after WW2 for men to meet, play snooker and drink tea, should that have been allowed to stay as a "females not wanted" space?

I'm sure, even now, plenty of men find it "annoying" too.

Yours is just another case of wanting equality but only the bits you like.

My brother's wife died, he bought up his DD, one day he went into Mothercare to use their nappy changing facilities, he was told to fuck off, was that you OP?

We all raised a glass when MC collapsed.

He once told me "i never realised how much of womens world raising a child is in the UK"
A swedish friend of his said to him "i feel sorry for you, not just because of your wife's death but because you re a man bring up a child in the UK"

Thank you! I have just added another post. I am going to get some serious flak I think. 🤣

“Their own men’s websites”

The internet isn’t gendered. It’s a largely anonymous place. What the hell is a men’s website, or a women’s website ?

There are some vomit-inducing stick-up-your-arse replies on here:
Men are parents too
parents are women AND men
or…
last time I checked it takes a woman and a man… - maybe that passes for wit in their lives.

And they miss the point that the OP is only saying she finds it annoying.

if a man replies on MN and I reply ‘ Fuck off. You’re a man. We don’t want to know what you think’ will it be deleted ? 🤣