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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel like my child free friends want me to dislike having a child?

291 replies

doggydoggle · 02/06/2024 00:57

Growing up, I observed that amongst my parents generation, there was a lot of jokes about husbands and wives disliking each other. This is often referred to as "boomer humour".

"The old ball and chain."

Jokes about his bald head and her fat bum.

It was all over birthday cards. It was all over tv and was generally part of every day conversation. Not to say that everyone actually felt that way but it felt like it was expected that they'd talk about each other that way.

I feel like my generation's (I'm in my 30s) equivalent to that is people joking about not liking their children. Parents often "jokingly" warn you "don't have kids". They do a sort of (either faux or real) jealousy when they hear about child free people going out to drinks as they have to be at home with a child. They constantly talk about needing wine to cope.

People without children often refer to children as smelly or gross or openly talk about how they could never cope with not having freedom.

I was child free for many years and I think it's great for people to be able to choose not to have children. I definitely don't think everyone should and it's obviously not the right thing for everyone. I believe people can be perfectly happy without children.

However I feel like a lot of people now seem to pity me for having a child and not being able to stay out late or make impromptu plans or "do whatever I want". Generally they talk about parenthood as being completely negative.

I confess that I felt this way before I had children. I definitely felt sorry for parents - thought they always looked stressed. Their lives didn't sound as fun. I thought mine seemed more fun - getting up when I want, not having responsibilities, being able to just think of myself.

The difference is that I didn't actually say this out loud to people with children!! As I knew it would be offensive to speak about their actual child who they loved as this horrible negative thing.

I've completely changed since having a child. I know that a lot of people will think it's for the worst but to me it feels like life is so much better now. Having a child is obviously hard sometimes but I love having him and I feel this complete and utter contentment and inner peace that I've craved my whole life. I have never been so at peace and happy ever before. I absolutely love being a mum and if I could go back in time I'd do it sooner and start sorting my life and finances out sooner so I could have had more.

I don't expect people to love or care about my child but I feel increasingly like having a child has almost become "uncool" amongst my (mostly childfree) peers. I'm constantly inundated with picture of peoples dogs. Everyone wants to meet these new dogs or see pictures or talk about and fuss over them. Sometimes they insist they love them as much as a parent loves their child (not in a joking 'fur baby' way either)

Any even mention of my child is at best smiled politely at before immediately changing the subject or worst I am told how they don't like children and sometimes they're called things like "crotch goblins". This is not in a loving jokey way.

Again I know nobody else owes me anything and has no reason to be interested in my child. I just feel it's weird that I'm expected to constantly talk about and look at pictures of dogs but if when giving an update about what's been happening with me I mention that my child learned to walk or talk or cartwheel, its boring and not an acceptable conversation.

When people find out I have a child they seem to feel sorry for me and want to brag about how they don't have one and their life is so easy.

I've tried making friends with mums at groups but I don't seem to have a lot in common with ones I've met and now I am back to working full time it is harder. A lot of people I meet through work, my interests etc tend to be childfree for whatever reason.

OP posts:
GingerPirate · 02/06/2024 11:57

I'm child free, 45 and it was without exaggeration the best decision I could have made by myself, for myself.
I don't want to socialise with children or families, so naturally I have child free acquaintances and the "jokes" are still there, only about something else.
😁
I haven't heard of "bold head and fat bum",
but have seen almost all the relationships where there are (small) kids go to hell.
Been happily married for 20 years.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:55

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:50

Maybe research how much tax is generated by Tech companies

Lets hope so for all our sakes.

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:54

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:50

I am in no way suggesting all childfree people are hyper-indivualists I was talking about the on-line movemet and degratory comments about parenthood. Studies suggest that the proprtion of people childfree by choice is pretty much where it always was at around 10-15% of the population.

Is this some dark hidden Reddit movement? It’s not something I’ve ever come across. Yes people give opinions on parenthood, but I hear more derogatory comments from parents themselves.

daliesque · 02/06/2024 11:52

I’m saying it’s not possible they can ever love their dog like they would a child (if they had one).

The love someone has for a pet cannot even be compared to the love someone has for a child.

Love is subjective. Individual and, despite what some people may think, we all experience it and give it differently.

My mother did not love me. I knew that. She knew that. Some parents don't love their children. Some parents harm their children. So your statement is only applicable to your own experience.

When pet owners say they love their animal like a child they mean that they love and care for their pet and that pet brings out maternal or paternal feelings in them. They are happy when the pet is enjoying a walk for example, sad and worried when it is ill and proud when the pet does something cute. How does that affect you, your children ans your life? It doesn't.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:51

Sorry which 50's ? You have really lost me now.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:50

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:46

Your comment said ‘I wouldn’t fancy being childfree in those circs’, so definitely appeared that you were talking about yourself and not society.

Just because someone is childfree doesn’t make them a hyper-individualist either. I’m beneficial to society and my friends family in many other ways

I am in no way suggesting all childfree people are hyper-indivualists I was talking about the on-line movemet and degratory comments about parenthood. Studies suggest that the proprtion of people childfree by choice is pretty much where it always was at around 10-15% of the population.

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:50

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:46

I am not sure the " young" ever were at least since the second half of the 20th century. It's the 35-55 age bracket that generally keep the whole economic show on the road. I totally take the point about tech, although there has been precious little advancement in the 25 years I have been practicing, lets hope the pace of change picks up in the next 20 years or so. There are 2 issues here physical labour and tax generation- they are separate but obviously related. Tech may be able to help with the first, not so much the second.

Maybe research how much tax is generated by Tech companies

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:48

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:46

Your comment said ‘I wouldn’t fancy being childfree in those circs’, so definitely appeared that you were talking about yourself and not society.

Just because someone is childfree doesn’t make them a hyper-individualist either. I’m beneficial to society and my friends family in many other ways

Also as a ‘neurodiversity doctor’ I don’t think you should go around throwing labels like ‘childfree movement’. It’s not a movement, we aren’t making any kind of point, simply making choices. Do you refer to the 50s as the ‘child rearing movement’?

fieldsofbutterflies · 02/06/2024 11:48

CerealPonderer · 02/06/2024 07:54

I genuinely wouldn't know what to say if someone told me that

Really? You'd have no idea what to say if someone told you their child had learned to walk? No clue at all of something appropriate to respond with? It doesn't sound like you suffer with communication difficulties in general as you can talk for hours about other subjects so why, specifically, does one innane comment about a child throw you to the point of being speechless?

People often make comments or tell me things I have zero actual interest in. People in work or clients, talking about their new extension or their pets, that they're going to be a grandparent or about their visit to Germany last month or the bargain they found on their new shoes. But I'm not a rude, dismissive prick so rather than sneer I say...

Oh how lovely.
Oh that's beautiful, such a lucky find!
Wow, sounds fantastic.
Congratulations, you must be so excited.

It's really, really not difficult or unusual at all and happens to most people often.

However this post pretty clearly proves the op's point. Some people will go to absolute lengths to try and make a point about how below their notice children are. It's odd and I suspect is usually a mask for other things.

Well, as I said in my other post, I'd be able to say something, - as in, "aw, how clever of her" (or similar) but what I meant was that I wouldn't be able to sustain any kind of prolonged conversation about it because it's not something I have any knowledge or interest in.

It's not about children being "below my notice" (whatever that's supposed to mean) - it's just that I genuinely have no experience with them and never spend any time with them. DH and I are child-free by choice, I have no siblings and all my cousins who have children live on the other side of the world. They're just not part of my life at all - my friends either don't have children or they're all grown up now, so if they talk about them, it's just about other adults.

I also never said I "sneered" about anything Hmm

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:46

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 11:34

The entire economy will need to be restructured. Young people aren't valuable workhorses any more. They won't be paying for future pensions either way.

I am not sure the " young" ever were at least since the second half of the 20th century. It's the 35-55 age bracket that generally keep the whole economic show on the road. I totally take the point about tech, although there has been precious little advancement in the 25 years I have been practicing, lets hope the pace of change picks up in the next 20 years or so. There are 2 issues here physical labour and tax generation- they are separate but obviously related. Tech may be able to help with the first, not so much the second.

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:46

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:39

Not you personally, socially, societally. Although many people do find huge personal satisfaction and joy in parenthood. Another thing I am grateful for is that I escaped the cult of hyper-indivlidualism which this post and tbh much of the " childfree" movement seems rooted in. I agree with PP it generally doesn't make people happy and is disaterous for societal cohesision.

Your comment said ‘I wouldn’t fancy being childfree in those circs’, so definitely appeared that you were talking about yourself and not society.

Just because someone is childfree doesn’t make them a hyper-individualist either. I’m beneficial to society and my friends family in many other ways

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:39

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:31

In this case I’d far rather be one of the child free with the big pension pot I’ve managed to save by not having children. I’m not sure how you think having children would help me in this situation ?

Edited

Not you personally, socially, societally. Although many people do find huge personal satisfaction and joy in parenthood. Another thing I am grateful for is that I escaped the cult of hyper-indivlidualism which this post and tbh much of the " childfree" movement seems rooted in. I agree with PP it generally doesn't make people happy and is disaterous for societal cohesision.

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:39

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 11:34

The entire economy will need to be restructured. Young people aren't valuable workhorses any more. They won't be paying for future pensions either way.

If @Neurodiversitydoctor is a doctor they will be aware of the current boom in health tech and health AI. While hands on care cannot be replaced, many other health related jobs can be.

And to @OptimismvsRealism Those ‘unemployed’ will find jobs in tech. It doesn’t build itself you know

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 11:34

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:27

So who is paying for your pension if working age adults are not needed in your vision of the future ? Is the massively elderly population cared for by robots ? You still haven't told me if you have actually watched it, or why if the falling birthrate is a non problem why governments across the world are trying to reverse it ? Your narrative is 20 years out of date.

The entire economy will need to be restructured. Young people aren't valuable workhorses any more. They won't be paying for future pensions either way.

upthehills1 · 02/06/2024 11:31

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:11

Have you watched birthgap ? You didn't answer. The birthrate globally fell below replacement level sometime ( like 20 years) ago the world population will peak around 2050. What we wll have is 40% of the population over 65 and not working, that almost certainly means a poorer standard of living and a longer working life for everyone. Unless I had immense personal wealth I wouldn't fancy being childfree in those circs. Not sure how old you are if you are over 40 you might "get away" with it.

In this case I’d far rather be one of the child free with the big pension pot I’ve managed to save by not having children. I’m not sure how you think having children would help me in this situation ?

MrsDTucker · 02/06/2024 11:28

I hate most kids. Most I know are whiney nasty spoiled. Mine aren't like this. Mine don't lie which is something I can't stand.

daliesque · 02/06/2024 11:27

for them to be uninterested in your DC seems unreasonable to me, even if they don’t like children generally, which is fair enough, they could make an effort to take an interest in yours as they are your friends, your not a random person.

Nope it's really not unreasonable for a group of friends who have all, but one, decided not to have children (or maybe not to have been able to) to not be interested in children.

The OP, bluntly, either accepts her friends as they are or gets herself a new group.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:27

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 11:21

Unemployed young people who have been replaced by tech won't help with pensions - they'll be a drain in the form of the support they need to compensate for their obsolescence as workers.

So who is paying for your pension if working age adults are not needed in your vision of the future ? Is the massively elderly population cared for by robots ? You still haven't told me if you have actually watched it, or why if the falling birthrate is a non problem why governments across the world are trying to reverse it ? Your narrative is 20 years out of date.

KimberleyClark · 02/06/2024 11:26

Pronatalism is in itself misogynistic- it reduces women’s value to their reproductive capacity.

Neverstophulaing · 02/06/2024 11:23

ChillysWaterBottle · 02/06/2024 10:48

People choosing not to have children because it's not right for them and being supported in that decision is great - a net gain for everyone and a healthy, positive situation.

That is entirely separate to the tedious 'childfree' movement which seeped out of places like Reddit and have leaked over most social media forums and then, as these things often do, into real life. It is regressive and cringe and usually horribly misogynistic as well (I spent some regrettable time in childfree communities back in the day, and yes they are awful and unhappy places and being nasty about mothers in particular including their bodies was ubiquitous). Since a misogynistic backlash to the feminist gains of the last 15/20 years is currently growing the 'childfree' movement is finding fertile ground. You can spot people influenced by this by their copious use of terms such as 'entitled' 'crotch goblins' 'brats' 'pet sperm' etc and being as unpleasant to and about mothers as they can get away with. As 'woke' ideology placed some social limits on who you could mock and bully, children and mothers became a much socially safer outlet for nastiness - extremely vulnerable groups in society that its ok to be a dick to.

I have friends who have chosen not to have children and are happy with their decision and are absolutely lovely about and to my child. I don't believe for a second those who are unpleasant to parents and children are actually happy with their lives. But why they feel entitled to make it everyone else's problem I don't know. They really desperately need mothers to be unhappy to validate themselves.

I absolutely agree with this. I never wanted kids and it wasn’t until a late hormonal surge that gave me an overwhelming desire to have kids, that I had them in my early 40s.

But in my happily childless days I never disliked kids or put down those who had them. People who pissed me off by challenging my lack of wish to have children did, but never people simply by being children or being parents.

I think this poster had hit the nail on the head that the extraordinary vitriol of some is based in cultural misogyny.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:22

Also please don't worry about my future financial security. I have firm plans to draw my 1995 section NHS final salary pension @ 56 (so 8 years time) I was very lucky with both the year of my birth, the property market and to have completed my family by aged 30, will have paid off the mortgage and finished supporting both DCs through University by then. I worry for those coming behind.

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 11:21

Unemployed young people who have been replaced by tech won't help with pensions - they'll be a drain in the form of the support they need to compensate for their obsolescence as workers.

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 11:20

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:17

Well mainly because they tell me, but also they have had it modelled to them by seeing their grandparents care for their great grandparents and now us start to care for our aging parents. But it's more about having a big enough tax payer base to maintain the pension bill and NHS. Can you answer my questions please ? I have answered all of yours.

Your question seems to be "are you worried by what a pronatalist TV show claims is a problem?"

No. I think that human society needs to reduce. I think children are awful and it's weird to have them as slaves for your old self.

Neurodiversitydoctor · 02/06/2024 11:17

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 11:13

Why do you think your kids will care for you? You need to make plans for yourself.

Well mainly because they tell me, but also they have had it modelled to them by seeing their grandparents care for their great grandparents and now us start to care for our aging parents. But it's more about having a big enough tax payer base to maintain the pension bill and NHS. Can you answer my questions please ? I have answered all of yours.