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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel like my child free friends want me to dislike having a child?

291 replies

doggydoggle · 02/06/2024 00:57

Growing up, I observed that amongst my parents generation, there was a lot of jokes about husbands and wives disliking each other. This is often referred to as "boomer humour".

"The old ball and chain."

Jokes about his bald head and her fat bum.

It was all over birthday cards. It was all over tv and was generally part of every day conversation. Not to say that everyone actually felt that way but it felt like it was expected that they'd talk about each other that way.

I feel like my generation's (I'm in my 30s) equivalent to that is people joking about not liking their children. Parents often "jokingly" warn you "don't have kids". They do a sort of (either faux or real) jealousy when they hear about child free people going out to drinks as they have to be at home with a child. They constantly talk about needing wine to cope.

People without children often refer to children as smelly or gross or openly talk about how they could never cope with not having freedom.

I was child free for many years and I think it's great for people to be able to choose not to have children. I definitely don't think everyone should and it's obviously not the right thing for everyone. I believe people can be perfectly happy without children.

However I feel like a lot of people now seem to pity me for having a child and not being able to stay out late or make impromptu plans or "do whatever I want". Generally they talk about parenthood as being completely negative.

I confess that I felt this way before I had children. I definitely felt sorry for parents - thought they always looked stressed. Their lives didn't sound as fun. I thought mine seemed more fun - getting up when I want, not having responsibilities, being able to just think of myself.

The difference is that I didn't actually say this out loud to people with children!! As I knew it would be offensive to speak about their actual child who they loved as this horrible negative thing.

I've completely changed since having a child. I know that a lot of people will think it's for the worst but to me it feels like life is so much better now. Having a child is obviously hard sometimes but I love having him and I feel this complete and utter contentment and inner peace that I've craved my whole life. I have never been so at peace and happy ever before. I absolutely love being a mum and if I could go back in time I'd do it sooner and start sorting my life and finances out sooner so I could have had more.

I don't expect people to love or care about my child but I feel increasingly like having a child has almost become "uncool" amongst my (mostly childfree) peers. I'm constantly inundated with picture of peoples dogs. Everyone wants to meet these new dogs or see pictures or talk about and fuss over them. Sometimes they insist they love them as much as a parent loves their child (not in a joking 'fur baby' way either)

Any even mention of my child is at best smiled politely at before immediately changing the subject or worst I am told how they don't like children and sometimes they're called things like "crotch goblins". This is not in a loving jokey way.

Again I know nobody else owes me anything and has no reason to be interested in my child. I just feel it's weird that I'm expected to constantly talk about and look at pictures of dogs but if when giving an update about what's been happening with me I mention that my child learned to walk or talk or cartwheel, its boring and not an acceptable conversation.

When people find out I have a child they seem to feel sorry for me and want to brag about how they don't have one and their life is so easy.

I've tried making friends with mums at groups but I don't seem to have a lot in common with ones I've met and now I am back to working full time it is harder. A lot of people I meet through work, my interests etc tend to be childfree for whatever reason.

OP posts:
MsCactus · 02/06/2024 19:59

I agree with all of this so much.

Before I had DD I was terrified of becoming a parent - despite always wanting it - because everyone told me it was awful.

It wasn't. It's wonderful. She's hilarious and sweet and adorable. Me and DH adore her, our mornings and evenings are spent laughing together and in terms of OUR (despite being told DC kill romance) we have great sex more than ever.

My figure also wasn't "ruined", my social life wasn't "ruined" either and DH will watch DD while I go for drinks or vice versa.

I have no idea why the narrative is that kids are awful but it definitely is. The people who don't pity me make out as if I'm some kind of superwoman for being happy with a hard job and a lovely DD.

My life was way more miserable and "harder" in that I used to obsess about pointless things before I had DD. Life was way less fun.

I don't know why everyone says having kids are terrible nowadays, but it's probably contributing to such a low birthrate tbh.

doggydoggle · 02/06/2024 19:04

Thanks all! I didn't expect this many replies. Sorry I obviously can't reply to all.

When I say I was child free for years I mean that for my 20s and some of my 30s I intended never to have children. My pregnancy was unplanned and I changed my mind. It's different to someone who plans to one day have children but waits until their 30s.

I was not implying that childfree people are not responsible with money. I was saying that I did not save as much as I could have done and didn't put as much effort into getting onto the properly ladder quickly. Now I have one child and if I'd started earlier I would have definitely had more.

My financial situation isn't ideal now to have more children and by the time it is I don't know if I'll be at an age I'm happy/able to have more. I was saying that, had I known how I would feel id have done it earlier and had more. It was a comment on how I'm unexpectedly enjoying it rather than an implication that childfree people are irresponsible with finances. Which would be ridiculous because most childfree people I know are much better off financially for obvious reasons.

A lot of comments discuss having different interests to my friends now and needing to find people who are more like me. I do agree with that. I wanted to post to see peoples thoughts because we otherwise get along well and in every other way they are very nice.

I will put more effort into finding mum friends.

I'm surprised though that so many see it as not been interested in my child because we have different interests. I don't think I tend to make friends with exactly the same interests as me - I make friends with people with the same values as me and whose company I enjoy but a lot of them have interests I don't share.

I'd never want to run a marathon but when someone tells me about it I don't tell them how boring a marathon sounds. I chat about it it and ask them questions. I wouldn't run a marathon myself but I'm interested because I care about them and their lives. It would seem really rude to say, in response to someone telling you about their marathon, "oh I'd hate that poor you".

If I really specifically had interest friends - like dog lover friends or knitting friends then it would feel more like being part of a club. There's fun in that too but I've always just made friends with people I like and find interesting rather than thinking much about interests. Obviously this is bigger than the other examples as it is such a massive part of life that dictates how your time is spent, but I was surprised to read so many people saying they're generally not interested in hearing about other peoples interests that they don't share.

I don't want to hear about fishing for hours but someone telling me briefly about a lovely fishing weekend they went on and a big fish they caught in passing while we caught up wouldn't bother me.

I never expect to go on about my child for hours and rarely speak about him but when we catch up and discuss what's going on in our lives, I've been mentioning things about him because he's a big part of my life in the same way they talk about their dogs for the same reason. I show interest when they do so.

I don't have an issue with anyone loving their dog like family. I don't think they love them in the same way parents love their human children and I would find it really odd if someone with a human child and a pet loved them the same amount and in the same way.

That doesn't mean that they can't love their pets very much and be very happy having pets. I just don't think the feelings are comparable and I'm surprised it seems more mainstream now to insist they are.

I actually like dogs by the way.

A couple of people seem to think that me confessing to feeling sorry for parents before I had children is some kind of "gotcha". My very point was that I understand why, in their eyes, my life doesn't look as fun now because I've thought the same in the past. Mentioning it to someone's face is rude though. I wouldn't have done that.

I didn't make the thread to bash childfree people. I don't think they're all secretly unhappy, although I guess some are especially if it's not actually by choice which I sympathise with.

Just because I've found happiness with children it doesn't mean others would and doesn't mean they're missing out or they're stupid etc. if anything, like a pp mentioned, I actually get the opposite vibe like they feel like I'm an idiot / stupid / beneath them because of my choice. I think it's massive progress in society that women now really feel they have a choice. I just don't think it's necessary for the choice to have children to be looked down on.

Thank you for those both with children and childfree people who have responded and especially those who have sympathised and suggested it's time I expand my friendships. I will try that.

I'll try to come back and add specific replies where I can. I can see I'm already being criticised for not returning sooner. I posted last night before going to sleep and have been with my son every minute of the day until his bedtime just now. That's not a complaint - we had a great day. I'm explaining why I didn't have chance to read, digest and formulate a response to an almost 300 post thread during that one Sunday daytime.

OP posts:
daliesque · 02/06/2024 18:29

Interesting how the OP hasn't been back all day 🤔

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 18:10

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 18:07

Noisy, self centered and needing basic things explained sounds like many adults - and I know many children who don't match that description at all.

It DOES sound like many adults and I'd avoid them too!

Children can't be more than nature allows them to be.

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 18:07

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:55

I suppose it's all culturally relative but noise tends to annoy UK adults, self centred conversation tends to annoy adults, needing to have basic things explained and done for them is tiresome.

I do get that some (many) people have overriding feelings of affection for them. But they're bad company if you don't!

Noisy, self centered and needing basic things explained sounds like many adults - and I know many children who don't match that description at all.

StormingNorman · 02/06/2024 17:23

Thewildthingsarewithme · 02/06/2024 07:37

I went to a cafe recently where the queue was about 20 deep, I had my objectively very cute three week old with me. The man in front of me had a puppy. As he left every person on the queue squealed and cooed and gushed over this puppy so loudly and excessively that they all laughed at themselves, I then walked out with my human baby who was barely even glanced at 😂 i

This is quite true. I coo over every dog I see in the coffee shop. When I see someone with a baby I hope they’re not going to sit next to me 😂

I’d never thought about it before!

mrlistersgelfbride · 02/06/2024 17:23

I resonate with this.

I'm a mum of 1 child and most of my old friends have no kids. At my workplace, more people don't have kids than have them. And they don't understand what it's like to be a parent. How can they? I didn't before I was one.
I always remember - a big group of old friends went out on NYE and I didn't want to go, I'd rather be with DD, and I couldn't anyway. They sent me a photo...they looked like they were having a ball. It was like being childfree was the default option and having kids was unusual.
I'm very much for this by the way- I think a childfree life can be fantastic and that having a child is very hard- but when you are a mum there's no going back!

I have to say no to lots of invitations- mainly nights out- I can't do everything as I often don't have childcare and DD does activities.
I made friends with mums at my daughter's school eventually but they are opposite ends of the scale and some have 3 or 4 kids and can't understand me either!

So I'll be your friend! 🤣 I know that a mum of 1 can be a weird place to be.
I'm sure you'll make mum friends in time.
It's early days for you. Don't rush it.

BruFord · 02/06/2024 17:07

PiIIock · 02/06/2024 17:01

Children can be annoying at any age, but it's still not usual to universally dislike them. Adult friends can annoy us, family can annoy us, partners... any human or animal can and will be annoying

Exactly, @PiIIock. I like dogs, but one of my neighbors’ dogs is a pain. I don’t like him much, because he tries to bite everyone!

BruFord · 02/06/2024 17:05

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:52

It's really not the same (although yes ageism in Scotland is now in some circumstances a crime so another reason to be diplomatic about it!)

It’s not the same in your opinion @OptimismvsRealism , but other people may disagree.

My point is simply that we all need to be mindful of others’ feelings and not be outright rude about children, in the same way that we wouldn’t be rude about other groups. I’d be rightly crucified if I said that I disliked autistic people, because that’s horrible. I have friends with autistic children/relatives and it certainly wouldn’t be acceptable to be rude about people with autism to them.

It’s the old maxim- if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything.

PiIIock · 02/06/2024 17:01

Children can be annoying at any age, but it's still not usual to universally dislike them. Adult friends can annoy us, family can annoy us, partners... any human or animal can and will be annoying

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:55

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 16:47

Children are not "objectively annoying", though. That's like saying that people who dislike children are "objectively annoying" (or again, I'll come back to my earlier examples - old people are objectively annoying, or disabled people are objectively annoying).

You're expressing an opinion, opinions are inherently subjective. I've met some annoying children, but I certainly don't think that children as a group are annoying, and I've taught a fair few.

I suppose it's all culturally relative but noise tends to annoy UK adults, self centred conversation tends to annoy adults, needing to have basic things explained and done for them is tiresome.

I do get that some (many) people have overriding feelings of affection for them. But they're bad company if you don't!

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 16:52

BruFord · 02/06/2024 16:37

@OptimismvsRealism I’m sure that you don’t verbalize your dislike in a derogatory way though, because doing so would be no different than saying “I dislike all disabled people,” for example.

Children are **younger human beings than us, not an alien species.

It's really not the same (although yes ageism in Scotland is now in some circumstances a crime so another reason to be diplomatic about it!)

iwentjasonwaterfalls · 02/06/2024 16:47

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 14:04

I know loads of children. I really feel a bit sad at how much less satisfying my adult relationships are after the relevant adults have had kids. I would not ever mention this, though. It's a bit like if a friend moves away for an amazing job. I'm sad because I've lost them in my life but I do recognise their choices will make them happy.

I think most parents recognise that children are objectively annoying while also being subjectively beloved, though...

Children are not "objectively annoying", though. That's like saying that people who dislike children are "objectively annoying" (or again, I'll come back to my earlier examples - old people are objectively annoying, or disabled people are objectively annoying).

You're expressing an opinion, opinions are inherently subjective. I've met some annoying children, but I certainly don't think that children as a group are annoying, and I've taught a fair few.

BruFord · 02/06/2024 16:37

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 08:10

The way they move, make noise, soak up all adult attention really stresses me out. I didn't like kids when I was a kid. Being an adult is awesome! I'm not saying it's impossible I'd meet a child I liked but it hasn't happened yet. They inevitably have the traits of their developmental stage. I don't hate them like they're bad or something I just hate being around their energy.

I know I'm not the centre of the universe and it's my problem to manage but I don't agree that disliking children is difficult to understand.

@OptimismvsRealism I’m sure that you don’t verbalize your dislike in a derogatory way though, because doing so would be no different than saying “I dislike all disabled people,” for example.

Children are **younger human beings than us, not an alien species.

HollyKnight · 02/06/2024 16:33

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 02/06/2024 14:48

I don't think not liking children is the same as being anti-children.

Say that about any other demographic (age, sex, ethnicity, religion...). How does it make you feel?

Not wanting children is perfectly fine.

Not appreciating children as human beings deserving of respect, dignity and reasonable accommodation in our society is an entirely different matter. Which is something OP´s friends and many other people seem to be doing, unfortunately.

And no, I am not a parent.

Edited

I don't like guns, but I can still accept their existence has a purpose. I still don't want one in my face. The same with spiders, politicians, taxes etc.

And I am a parent.

TheaBrandt · 02/06/2024 16:16

I was never particularly mumsy but genuinely have found many other peoples children really delightful. Dd used to have parties mid primary and invite the boys such a great group of little lads and inadvertently hilariously funny. I wonder if the “hate all children” brigade have spent any time with actual children?

fieldsofbutterflies · 02/06/2024 15:48

KimberleyClark · 02/06/2024 15:46

And to a greater extent, there are those people who make not having children a large part of their personality, which usually includes regular jabs about how annoying children are. Insufferable.

There are also those that make being a mother/parent a large part of their personality to the exclusion of any other interest, and comment about how anyone who has chosen not to have children must be inwardly miserable and regretful……

Well, exactly.

There was a poster (whose comments have now been deleted) who was being incredibly unpleasant about anyone who chose to be child-free. Telling them they were really miserable (but lying about it) and that they'd definitely regret it when they got older.

KimberleyClark · 02/06/2024 15:46

And to a greater extent, there are those people who make not having children a large part of their personality, which usually includes regular jabs about how annoying children are. Insufferable.

There are also those that make being a mother/parent a large part of their personality to the exclusion of any other interest, and comment about how anyone who has chosen not to have children must be inwardly miserable and regretful……

PrinceAmongMen · 02/06/2024 15:40

@fitzwilliamdarcy I don't 'hang out' on a childfree Reddit forum, anymore than you 'hang out' on Tik Toks for regretful parents (I have children myself).

But clearly those types of crazy people do exist. Possibly due to lacking empathy, immaturity, maybe anger at parents questioning their choices, or infertility struggles.

And to a greater extent, there are those people who make not having children a large part of their personality, which usually includes regular jabs about how annoying children are. Insufferable.

I'm not sure where this is going, but basically there are annoying and insensitive people. They're not representative of everyone, but they exist.

OptimismvsRealism · 02/06/2024 15:27

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 02/06/2024 14:48

I don't think not liking children is the same as being anti-children.

Say that about any other demographic (age, sex, ethnicity, religion...). How does it make you feel?

Not wanting children is perfectly fine.

Not appreciating children as human beings deserving of respect, dignity and reasonable accommodation in our society is an entirely different matter. Which is something OP´s friends and many other people seem to be doing, unfortunately.

And no, I am not a parent.

Edited

I suppose where disagreement kicks in is around what "reasonable accommodation" entails.

Nottodaythankyou123 · 02/06/2024 15:25

LordSnot · 02/06/2024 14:31

No, I don't think that's just what we do (or should do). It's rude to bang on about military history when you know nobody else is interested. Sure, if he's discovered something particularly interesting about military history then tell me and I'll make some polite comments (like the OP's friends do about her kids) but keep going on and on and I will change the subject.

I don't go on about subjects I know my friends aren't interested in. It's common manners.

right but you don’t outwardly roll your eyes and say “oh I’m just not remotely interested in [insert topic] and my life is so much easier for it” do you? Because that would be rude 🤷🏼‍♀️ and that’s what this thread originally started about - out and out rude shitty comments towards people with children

fitzwilliamdarcy · 02/06/2024 15:21

PrinceAmongMen · 02/06/2024 14:45

Suggesting that childfree people are evil enough to ignore child abuse, whilst ignoring the fact that the person most likely to be abusing the child is their parent, is a truly bonkers new take.

So if someone laughs or condones a tragic event it's fine because the perpetrator
is worse? I don't think so.

All the childfree and childless people I know IRL are lovely and normal. But there are crazy people around. Look at r/childfree on Reddit. Unhinged is the only word.

People will say stupid shit like 'is it just me, it is SA on adults worse than children' and general hate for children, parents esp. low income, young or single parents.

Abusing a child is messed up. Anyone suggesting it's a big deal is messed up. There are people who hate children.

You’ve missed my point. Nobody is laughing at or condoning child abuse (at least not here - I don’t hang out on reddit, and I’m not sure why you do either, it sounds dreadful). I’m a victim of it, it’s the last thing I’d do.

What I’m saying is that it was suggested that due to their lack of having had children, childfree people might be evil enough to ignore child abuse - ignoring the fact that a parent is likely to be the one carrying out the abuse.

It’s an absolutely bananas way to try to make the point that parents are virtuous and childfree people are evil.

PumpkinsAndCoconuts · 02/06/2024 14:48

HollyKnight · 02/06/2024 08:41

I don't think not liking children is the same as being anti-children. I'm pretty sure everyone understands that children are needed for society to continue. They just don't like them or enjoy them in the child stage because they can be irritating and disruptive. And I think a lot of the annoyance is actually aimed at the parents rather than the children.

I don't think not liking children is the same as being anti-children.

Say that about any other demographic (age, sex, ethnicity, religion...). How does it make you feel?

Not wanting children is perfectly fine.

Not appreciating children as human beings deserving of respect, dignity and reasonable accommodation in our society is an entirely different matter. Which is something OP´s friends and many other people seem to be doing, unfortunately.

And no, I am not a parent.

PrinceAmongMen · 02/06/2024 14:45

Suggesting that childfree people are evil enough to ignore child abuse, whilst ignoring the fact that the person most likely to be abusing the child is their parent, is a truly bonkers new take.

So if someone laughs or condones a tragic event it's fine because the perpetrator
is worse? I don't think so.

All the childfree and childless people I know IRL are lovely and normal. But there are crazy people around. Look at r/childfree on Reddit. Unhinged is the only word.

People will say stupid shit like 'is it just me, it is SA on adults worse than children' and general hate for children, parents esp. low income, young or single parents.

Abusing a child is messed up. Anyone suggesting it's a big deal is messed up. There are people who hate children.

LordSnot · 02/06/2024 14:31

Nottodaythankyou123 · 02/06/2024 07:33

I think it’s one thing to not be interested and another to be remotely rude. Take kids out of it - we all have different interests - my BiL is interested in military history, it’s not my thing personally but I show an interest. Isn’t that just what adults do if it’s someone they like, show an interest in their interest, even if it’s not something that interests them.
Only seems to be kids people are so weird about 😂

No, I don't think that's just what we do (or should do). It's rude to bang on about military history when you know nobody else is interested. Sure, if he's discovered something particularly interesting about military history then tell me and I'll make some polite comments (like the OP's friends do about her kids) but keep going on and on and I will change the subject.

I don't go on about subjects I know my friends aren't interested in. It's common manners.