If state grammar schools were for only state educated children…

We live 15 minutes drive from a very good grammar school, and I'm grateful they don't have a catchment area as we wouldn't likely be in it, although we are definitely a reasonable school journey away. It means we can have a fair shot at it when the time comes. The secondary schools otherwise aren't anything special. I've been told my son is quite gifted in maths and I appreciate that he can try for somewhere that might challenge him. We can't afford tutoring but he likes to do maths for fun so I'm hoping that will carry him through.

I really, really hate the suggestion that it isn't already a level playing field, or that fsm pupils should gain advantage to 'level' it up.

I suppose it depends where you are talking about, but for Bucks, it is a pretty level playing field and does help social !ability/mixing, far more than abolishing grammars would be.

My DS went to grammar school. At the time I was a single parent on benefits.

18 years later I have a DD at grammar school. My husband works, I haven't since just before COVID due to ill health.

Neither of my DC were tutored, I just couldn't afford it either time.

I actually felt embarrassed yesterday as I went to one of DD's friends house and they lived very differently to us (we live in a social housing house), but the kids don't see it).

I don't think they're perfect, but if they were abolished the rich wouldn't mix with the poorer, as they could move nearer the best schools, leaving those unable to afford a house in the sink schools.

It would be fairer if out of catchment children, who have been tutored, were not given places, as it's the amount of OOC children, who have high marks, which push the marks up, leaving children in catchment who may have managed to pass if the score hadn't been pushed up by the OOC kids.

But it's not true that poor children, or children that have not been tutored cannot pass, my two are testament to that (DD actually went to a primary that was in special measures and is one of the least wanted schools in our town, so she never benefitted from a good primary either).

I agree. It's not a level playing field when children with a priviledged primary education and 11 plus coaching are competing for grammar school places with children from a disadvantaged background. A system which accounted for context would be much fairer.

Grammar schools giving contextual offers would be disastrous for those children. The teaching moves at a faster pace and the children who don’t have the capacity quickly fall behind and struggle. Even those who get in on appeal after narrowly missing the 11+ are more likely to end up struggling, with mental health issues, absenteeism and being terrified to go into their classrooms. I saw it all the time working in a grammar school.

I support levelling the playing field. I do not support deliberately disadvantaging children which is what you are proposing.

Definitely not! State schools are for everyone. I do agree to some extent on the grammar schools having catchments to serve the local

Given only 4 to 4.5% of DCs in England are at Grammars I think there are a whole lot of bigger issues for schools - school funding, SEN, teacher attraction and retention to name but three - to be addressed first.

Grammar schools are state schools. The parents who privately educate pay their share of taxes. Why shouldn’t they be allowed to use state schools if they want?

That’s an awful suggestion. If kids need to move from private to state and grammar schools happen to be an option in their area then so be it. They’re citizens and their parents are tax paying just like anyone else! Also, unless they’re specifically prep schools aiming for the grammars, the teaching tends to be very different from what’s actually required for the 11+

Looks like only 3% of the school child population crosses from private primary to state secondary.
So they can hardly be taking up that many places.
What about all those in state primary with private tutoring? How are you accounting for them?

Just get rid of grammar schools altogether, and you don’t even have to mess about with contextual offers. Which aren’t necessarily a bad thing, but rendered unnecessary if you remove grammars. Huge swathes of the country don’t have them.

Every to local catchment as a default (EHCP needs considered) and all schools adequately funded to have teachers and resources to teach to all abilities.