Orange marches belfast

I'm not a fan of anyone who visits, sees something that reminds them that the past isn't entirely in the past and posts "Ew, that's distasteful to me, it should, like, totally be banned". Like NI should sweep its recent history under the sofa so the visitors don't have to contemplate it. It's an overly simplistic view of a post conflict society.

I don’t think the OP should be criticised. She expressed her views and there’s been a good discussion about tribalism in both NI and Scotland afterwards.
For those who visit NI it can be a shock when seen first hand and that’s what’s she is expressing here.
But as a previous poster said, the people of NI should be proud of what has been achieved in 25 years. For sure there’s more ground to go but so much has been achieved.

It's not exactly welcoming to tourists.

The rougher and more extreme elements of both the unionist and nationalist "sides" here don't give a flying fuck about tourism. It's not remotely their priority.

Not realising that is one of the reasons op seems so naive here.

It's also such a joke to say to NI people who aren't like that "it makes your country look bad", like they can do something about it, the people who were held hostage by terrorism in their own country for decades and couldn't do anything about it.

The naivety and arrogance is striking.

I have to say I often find English people of Irish and Northern Irish extraction to be particularly zealous, simplistic and opinionated on this.

I know a few English people of Irish extraction who've also moved here in recent years, they espouse similar views and one got a council house swap because she didn't like the practice parades near her house, among other things. She's also demanded changes re. the primary school she sent her kids too, in a unionist council estate.

One thing I know about her and I'd wager about other people like her is that she would never have moved here or spent any time here during the Troubles.

So she didn't grow up here, wouldn't have spent any time here during the Troubles ...but now has moved here and regularly complains about the "culture", and demands changes to make it more like England....and not like Northern Ireland.

The English (later GB and UK) monarchy and government dictated the history here over hundreds of years, but so many English people want the legacy of that to somehow not exist.

No definitely not, south east. They would worship you in this town. 😆

Superlambaanana you are talking tripe. All these parades do is cause hate & disruption. The OP is completely correct.

I wonder if that’s the same seaside town on the nw coast, that I was threatened at 6 months pregnant because I’m english?

Op your posts and views are very cringe worthy. You're putting across your points in an incredibly insensitive, one dimensional and insulting way, and frankly, demonstrating why people who don't understand other cultures should think before they speak and be cautious before spewing opinions.

So, heres the simplistic response to your puerile question:

Northern Ireland is enjoying peace after a bloody war which cost thousands of lives. No one in their right mind wants to jeopardise that.

Why?

Why is wearing a football top just as bad as people marching in the name
of oppression of a particular religion?

This also explains why “hun”, short for “honey” is not really used as a term of affection in the w of Scotland and n Ireland

So you put on a hibs top when you saw a rangers top? You are just as bad!!

@DotDashDot24 i agree, I don’t think a lot of people “get it”. I’m from the west of Scotland and have visited n Ireland on umpteen occasions, lots of n Irish friends and experience orange marches and the whole rangers/celtic thing here too but even I don’t fully get it. I do hope n Ireland keeps moving forward though as nobody wants to go back to the 70s and 80s.

When I lived near Falkirk we were woken up by one, thinking “what the fuck is that noise?”, it’s only when I looked out and saw folks walking past the house in Rangers tops drinking buckfast I connected the dots. This was 8:30 or so on a Saturday morning.

I very pointedly wore my Hibernian top that day - Edinburgh based football club with Irish roots who’s name literally means “Irish” for those who don’t know.

I have literally zero care for any religion and I’m an atheist but these marches are so antiquated it’s ridiculous they still happen.

Scotland still has a problem with sectarianism and it’s so interlinked with the two biggest football teams that it’s almost impossible to stamp it out.

Didn’t they paint the kerbstones red, blue and white?

I can well believe that we have more of these marches/ parades in Glasgow than there are in Belfast!
Yesterday my area hosted a huge Apprentice Boys of Derry get-together - 48 marching bands from all over Scotland - thousands of people taking part, and a fair few spectators.

I don't get why they feel the need to start so early in the morning. 8.30am feels very anti-social on a weekend.

Suki1964 you can't speak for every town in NI so stop dismissing OP's claims as untrue
I for one live here and know of a seaside town near me which is literally 50/50 but there are red white & blue pavements aswell as flags to show dominance. Not only that but paramilitary flags also fly. It's not exactly welcoming to tourists.

im a visitor here - as is my DH - he saw blatant sectarianism whilst out for a walk. That’s the impression visitors are getting

TBH, I think that is very far from the mark

I live here and work in hospitality and I have never known a visitor to mention any blatant sectarianism but again, I assert that your family dont quite live in such a mixed area as you would like to lead us all to believe, and those areas are not areas where the bog standard tourist to our country are going to be hanging out

Too bloody right they will

An Orange man near me ,who Ive got to know well since Ive lived here, his wife and children were held hostage and he was forced to drive a 500lb bomb to a police station which dentonated

Is he bitter? Nope, hes a friend of mine ( Im Catholic ) and he turns up to any funeral, church or chapel, where he knows the person or has business with them or the family. Most of the fellas he drinks with are catholic , yet come the 12th, he will don his suit and sash and march

My DH's father was an Orange man, did he tell his son never to darken his door bringing a catholic into the home to shame him? Did he hell, I was welcomed

Same as my husbands children, both gone on to marry Catholics

Northern Ireland is complex, Its not black and white. I felt I knew it all as an English woman born from Irish parents , but living here in Northern Ireland , my views have and still are changing

As for the Op's assertion that her family live in a mixed community - thats so far from the truth. No one who is identifying as an opposing ( for want of a better word ) is going to live in an area where the kerb stones are painted or the "wrong" flags are flown

Luckily those areas are becoming less and less, even in the 20 years Ive lived here Ive seen the decline

As for the parades, yep they are a PITA. I live in the Bible belt and we are having them 2 or 3 times a week so it seems atm. Singing? Nope never heard singing, lots of flutes , if we are lucky some pipe bands, but never singing

And yes when our town is hosting, Im spectating. Its a good day out, the roads are fully lined, cars are parked up the night before to bag the space. Yes after the parade there is a huge amount of drinking and yes some "boys" cant handle their drink and there is antisocial behaviour and Im sure in some hot spots it does kick off, Im not denying it doesnt happen. But for the most part these parades are held peacefully and respectfully

Republican marches are just as contentious , theres those who dont want them either

Pride isn't what it used to be

I think the issue with the pride event is that some of the participants dress in a way that isn’t terribly appropriate for children and it gets peoples backs up.

I was shocked at the number of parades in NI. There are around 3000 each year - the vast majority of which are sectarian. There are some which are non-aligned such as Lord Mayors parades, and increasingly St. Patrick's Day is celebrated by both sides as St. Patrick is the patron saint for whole island. One parade that the bigots on both sides complain about vociferously and want banned is the Pride event.

That's good to know. I was just curious because somebody earlier said orangemen were banned from Catholic churches.

@Evanna13 Absolutely would go to the funeral & that works both ways. One thing all the folk of Ireland, Catholic & Protestant do well is death.

I suspect we just have to pay them no attention and wait for them all to die out. They're disgusting and bigoted and do nothing but spread hate.

Just wondering if you seen the news today with your beloved Londoners marching through the streets with Tommy Robinson with the St. George’s flags?

There’s been 52 murders in Scotland for the past year as of 9th of February 2024, 24 murders in NI for the year 22/23 the same as the previous year but in your precious London alone there have been 112 for the same period and 44 from January to May this year alone!!

Lets not forget a lot of this is gang violence related or totally innocent adults and children being caught in the cross fire.

The Old Firm in Scotland between Celtic and Rangers, like other English football teams have their bad seeds but not everyone is like that, the majority can go and have a great time ( not so much now with the ticket allocation between both the clubs ) it’s a select few that ruin it for everyone else. I would never say every person who supports Millwall or Aston Villa are terrible people because that couldn’t be further from the truth.

So before you start going on about Scotland and NI make sure your own metaphorical house isn’t made of glass. London is not the almighty holy land you think it is.

Yes, well, you clearly know as little about NI as you do about university, so maybe educate yourself before pronouncing?

OP, like a PP, I’m struggling to understand why this is such a surprise to you, given that you have family in NI whom you clearly visit frequently. Sure, you may not have visited during the rehearsal period of marching season, but surely you’re familiar with the practice? Our NI friends used to come and visit wherever we lived to avoid the 12th.